Official Book Change

[bainsey]

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

[ref3808]

In this area middle school games are often squeezed into the schedule in mid afternoon and at times the visiting team shows up less than 10 minutes before the game, does a couple of quick warm up drills and away we go. Often times the coaches are scrambling to get organized, aren't aware of all of the rules and are dealing with old, passed down warm up jerseys where players have different numbers for home and away and depending on the team they are playing may even use home jerseys for an away game. Table crews are kids and parents who volunteer. I'd say it's rare, to address Bainsey's question, that this would be enforced.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

In my association, if I accept a MS game, I better not half-a$$ it. Meaning I will check the book and make each coach sign it (that's how they do it here). Last thing I need is word getting back to my assigner that I didn't bother doing my job because it was "just a middle school game". Our mantra is the game you're working is the most important game of the night. The coaches, players, and parents certainly think it is, and expect us to treat it as such. I'm not saying others wouldn't skip some of the formalities, but I won't.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

In my association, if I accept a MS game, I better not half-a$$ it. Meaning I will check the book and make each coach sign it (that's how they do it here). Last thing I need is word getting back to my assigner that I didn't bother doing my job because it was "just a middle school game". Our mantra is the game you're working is the most important game of the night. The coaches, players, and parents certainly think it is, and expect us to treat it as such. I'm not saying others wouldn't skip some of the formalities, but I won't.

If it's a game assigned by my local IAABO board's assignment commissioner (who assigns both high school games and middle school games), then I agree with Smitty 100%.

Regarding my Catholic middle school games, different assigner, different culture, we're not expected to dot all the i's and cross all the t's, and our assigner allows us to take some shortcuts, i.e. looser mechanics.

[Adam]

We generally ignore late rosters in ms games, but an actual change is different and I'd get this one.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Adam

We generally ignore late rosters in ms games, but an actual change is different and I'd get this one.

Based on my reading of the OP, and the case I cited, I don't think you should "get this one."

(But I agree with the general sentiment.)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Based on my reading of the OP, and the case I cited, I don't think you should "get this one."

(But I agree with the general sentiment.)

Home team book makes a change to a home number? I'm probably getting it. But I wouldn't talk anyone into it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Adam

Home team book makes a change to a home number? I'm probably getting it. But I wouldn't talk anyone into it.

10.1.2 (b) "The infraction occurs when the scorer is advised to add to or change the scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize."

In the OP, the book was apparently changed before the game. Once you get to halftime, it's too late to penalize it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

In the OP, the book was apparently changed before the game. Once you get to halftime, it's too late to penalize it.

Bingo.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

10.1.2 (b) "The infraction occurs when the scorer is advised to add to or change the scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize."

In the OP, the book was apparently changed before the game. Once you get to halftime, it's too late to penalize it.

Bob,
If the coach decides to put #10/31 in the game in the second half we will now have to deal with the number change, correct? If the official scorer "claims" he made the change prior to the deadline and we have no knowledge otherwise then we should accept the home book as being correct and again, there is no penalty. Is that correct?

Or, being that we have a situation where we have been made aware the books disagree, get it straightened right now to avoid any problems in the second half?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

In the OP, the book was apparently changed before the game. Once you get to halftime, it's too late to penalize it.

Three scorebook situations: adding a name to the team roster, changing a name or a number in the official scorebook, and/or having a player change a uniform number, are penalized with a team technical foul when they occur, after the ten minute time limit. These infractions occur when the scorer is advised to add to or change the official scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball becomes live, after such changes have been made to the scorebook, it is too late to penalize.

After the ten minute time limit a team is charged with a maximum of one technical foul regardless of how many infractions of the following are committed: changing a designated starter, adding a name to the team member list, requiring the scorer to change a team member’s or player’s number in the scorebook, requiring a player to change to the number in the scorebook, and/or having identical numbers on team members and/or players. Each player must wear the number indicated in the scorebook, or change the official scorebook number to that the player is wearing. Any additional substitutes who become players and require the changing of the number indicated for them in the official scorebook will not result in a penalty, as the one maximum technical has already been charged to the team for that team’s administrative infraction

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

10.1.2 (b) "The infraction occurs when the scorer is advised to add to or change the scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize."

In the OP, the book was apparently changed before the game. Once you get to halftime, it's too late to penalize it.

You're right.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Adam

Home team book makes a change to a home number? I'm probably getting it. But I wouldn't talk anyone into it.

Wouldn't it be a good opportunity to turn int into a teaching moment for the coaches who may be trying to advance in their careers? Enforcing the T would help them where as you may rob them of a valuable lesson they shouldn't have to learn the hard way when they get to varsity level.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

Middle School game? ...let er slide...

Now, unsporting conduct by a MS coach...whack em' every time!

[Moosie74]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

I think it was one of those "it depends" moments. Some middle school games are highly organized and controlled. Other times they barely have enough players, odd uniforms, or other issues.

I did one game last year with a private school that didn't have enough same gender players that they ended up playing co-ed. I had male and females wearing the same numbers, illegal, yes, but it's pretty easy to identify the person anyway.

Their coach was also the soccer coach who knew very little about the game of basketball, administratively, my partner and I pointed out what was illegal but pushed on.

The book should be checked before every game, regardless of level. But in the original scenario, I am not charging a technical. But the coach will get reminded for the proper procedures.