Official Book Change

[The R]

Middle School game last week.

At half time the visiting team book keeper brings to my attention that there is not a #31 in the book but #31 checked in and played.

I check the official book and there is a line crossed through #10 and a #31 written beside it. The clock keeper (the only adult at the table) says oh yea I forgot to tell them we changed the number before the game began.

Visiting team score keeper replies yea but you are the one who wrote your names/numbers in my book.

So we don't know for sure when the correction was made.

How do you handle this?
What call do you make? If you have a no call what do you tell the visiting team?

[Smitty]

Did you check the book before the game started? If so, was there a line through #10? If there wasn't, I would assess the T.

If you didn't check the book, it's on you. You can't really assess a T if you didn't check the book before the game.

[bob jenkins]

See case 10.1.2(b).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You can't really assess a T if you didn't check the book before the game.

I agree with you that the referee should check the book before the game, however, please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I agree with you that the referee should check the book before the game, however, please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

I don't have my books with me, but how can you assess a T for something you have no knowledge of? How can you be certain that the official book wasn't correct? The visitor's book has no relevance unless you checked the official book. Turning it around on you, how do you justify a T if you didn't check the book?

[The R]

The book was not checked in this scenario.

But let's say it was. And let's also assume you checked it a few minutes before the game began.

Joe B (adult at the table) claims it was still changed before the start of the game and that he just forgot to tell the visiting team or you.

Your basis for the T will then be that the number was changed after you checked the book? Even though you have no knowledge if that occured before or after the start of the game?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I don't have my books with me, but how can you assess a T for something you have no knowledge of? How can you be certain that the official book wasn't correct? The visitor's book has no relevance unless you checked the official book. Turning it around on you, how do you justify a T if you didn't check the book?

I'm not quite sure about the original post situation, still a little confused, but if a player plays, or played, and this requires a change in the book, my ruling will have little to do with whether, or not, I checked the book before the game. If I'm at the table, and if there's a change being made in the home (official) book while I'm standing there, then I'm charging a technical foul, whether, or not, I checked the book, or not, before the game.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by The R

Your basis for the T will then be that the number was changed after you checked the book? Even though you have no knowledge if that occured before or after the start of the game?

Does it matter whether it was changed before or after the game started? Is that the right time frame?

Does it matter that the V scorekeeper brought it to your attention at halftime? Is that the right criterion for assessing a T?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not quite sure about the original post situation, still a little confused, but if a player plays, or played, and this requires a change in the book, my ruling will have little to do with whether, or not, I checked the book before the game. If I'm at the table, and if there's a change being made in the home (official) book while I'm standing there, then I'm charging a technical foul, whether, or not, I checked the book, or not, before the game.

Methinks you should read the OP again...pay closer attention to when the change was made. Can you tell from the OP when the change was made? The part I highlighted in blue - that's your imagination adding something that wasn't there.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not quite sure about the original post situation, still a little confused.

Originally Posted by Smitty

Methinks you should read the OP again, pay closer attention to when the change was made.

I read it again. The entire situation still confuses me.

Again, in general ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... if I'm at the table, and if there's a change being made in the home (official) book while I'm standing there, then I'm charging a technical foul, whether, or not, I checked the book, or not, before the game.

Regarding changing the book, in general, very little in my thought process will involve whether, or not, I checked the book before the game.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I read it again. The entire situation still confuses me.

Yet you questioned me and not the original poster. Well played.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You can't really assess a T if you didn't check the book before the game.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

Originally Posted by Smitty

Yet you questioned me and not the original poster.

I was questioning your statement, and I'm still questioning it. Again, please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was questionng your statement, and I'm still questionning it. Again, please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

And again I will throw it back at you and ask - charge a T for what? How do you know that line through #10 and adding of #31 wasn't there at the 10 minute mark before the game started? What exactly are you assessing the T for?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

And again I will throw it back at you and ask - charge a T for what? How do you know that line through #10 and adding of #31 wasn't there at the 10 minute mark before the game started? What exactly are you assessing the T for?

And again, the original situation still confuses me. I'm speaking in general, and still looking for a citation regarding whether, or not, the referee checks the book before the game and how it impacts on a ruling to charge a technical foul for changing the book.

[bainsey]

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?