Official Book Change

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not quite sure about the original post situation, still a little confused.

Originally Posted by Smitty

Methinks you should read the OP again, pay closer attention to when the change was made.

I read it again. The entire situation still confuses me.

Again, in general ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... if I'm at the table, and if there's a change being made in the home (official) book while I'm standing there, then I'm charging a technical foul, whether, or not, I checked the book, or not, before the game.

Regarding changing the book, in general, very little in my thought process will involve whether, or not, I checked the book before the game.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I read it again. The entire situation still confuses me.

Yet you questioned me and not the original poster. Well played.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You can't really assess a T if you didn't check the book before the game.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

Originally Posted by Smitty

Yet you questioned me and not the original poster.

I was questioning your statement, and I'm still questioning it. Again, please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was questionng your statement, and I'm still questionning it. Again, please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

And again I will throw it back at you and ask - charge a T for what? How do you know that line through #10 and adding of #31 wasn't there at the 10 minute mark before the game started? What exactly are you assessing the T for?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

And again I will throw it back at you and ask - charge a T for what? How do you know that line through #10 and adding of #31 wasn't there at the 10 minute mark before the game started? What exactly are you assessing the T for?

And again, the original situation still confuses me. I'm speaking in general, and still looking for a citation regarding whether, or not, the referee checks the book before the game and how it impacts on a ruling to charge a technical foul for changing the book.

[bainsey]

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

[ref3808]

In this area middle school games are often squeezed into the schedule in mid afternoon and at times the visiting team shows up less than 10 minutes before the game, does a couple of quick warm up drills and away we go. Often times the coaches are scrambling to get organized, aren't aware of all of the rules and are dealing with old, passed down warm up jerseys where players have different numbers for home and away and depending on the team they are playing may even use home jerseys for an away game. Table crews are kids and parents who volunteer. I'd say it's rare, to address Bainsey's question, that this would be enforced.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

In my association, if I accept a MS game, I better not half-a$$ it. Meaning I will check the book and make each coach sign it (that's how they do it here). Last thing I need is word getting back to my assigner that I didn't bother doing my job because it was "just a middle school game". Our mantra is the game you're working is the most important game of the night. The coaches, players, and parents certainly think it is, and expect us to treat it as such. I'm not saying others wouldn't skip some of the formalities, but I won't.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

Middle School game? ...let er slide...

Now, unsporting conduct by a MS coach...whack em' every time!

[Moosie74]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

I think it was one of those "it depends" moments. Some middle school games are highly organized and controlled. Other times they barely have enough players, odd uniforms, or other issues.

I did one game last year with a private school that didn't have enough same gender players that they ended up playing co-ed. I had male and females wearing the same numbers, illegal, yes, but it's pretty easy to identify the person anyway.

Their coach was also the soccer coach who knew very little about the game of basketball, administratively, my partner and I pointed out what was illegal but pushed on.

The book should be checked before every game, regardless of level. But in the original scenario, I am not charging a technical. But the coach will get reminded for the proper procedures.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by bainsey

out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

+1

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Out of curiosity, based on local instruction and/or culture, how many would "let this slide" in a middle school game?

I've had a freshman coach refuse to allow me to charge his opponent with the T.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was questioning your statement, and I'm still questioning it. Again, please provide a citation that states that the official cannot charge a technical foul because he did not "check the book before the game".

Billy... you're making this harder than necessary.

What he means is that if you are NOT SURE a rule was broken, you can't charge a T for breaking the rule... and if you didn't bother to check the book before the game, you have absolutely no clue as to whether a rule was broken or not.

And he's right.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If you didn't bother to check the book before the game, you have absolutely no clue as to whether a rule was broken or not.

If the number was changed in the book within the proper "time frame" then I'm going to charge a technical foul, whether, or not, I checked the book before the game.

Around here "checking the book" simply means that there are eleven players warming up, and there are eleven players in the book, that all of them have legal numbers, and that none of them have duplicate numbers. I know of no official who makes sure that a 31 listed in the scorebook corresponds with a 31 uniform number on a player warming up.

If the home (official) scorekeeper tells me that a number in the book was changed, I'm going to ask him when it was changed. If there's a challenge from the offended coach, I might ask to see the rosters that the numbers were copied from, but I don't need to do a pregame "check the book" to do any of that. If the number was changed in the book within the proper "time frame", then I'm going to charge a technical foul.

Just because I screw up by not checking the book doesn't mean that two wrongs will make it right. I am not compounding my first mistake by allowing a second mistake to occur.

Maybe "checking the book" is done differently outside of my little corner here in Connecticut?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If the number was changed in the book within the proper "time frame" then I'm going to charge a technical foul, whether, or not, I checked the book before the game.

Around here "checking the book" simply means that there are eleven players warming up, and there are eleven players in the book, that all of them have legal numbers, and that none of them have duplicate numbers. I know of no official who makes sure that a 31 listed in the scorebook corresponds with a 31 uniform number on a player warming up.

If the home (official) scorekeeper tells me that a number in the book was changed, I'm going to ask him when it was changed. If there's a challenge from the offended coach, I might ask to see the rosters that the numbers were copied from, but I don't need to do a pregame "check the book" to do any of that. If the number was changed in the book within the proper "time frame", then I'm going to charge a technical foul.

Just because I screw up by not checking the book doesn't mean that two wrongs will make it right. I am not compounding my first mistake by allowing a second mistake to occur.

Maybe "checking the book" is done differently outside of my little corner here in Connecticut?

Yes it is. In Oklahoma we take the official scorebook, count the players, make sure they have the same amount in the book. Then we take the book to each coach and ask him if everything is correct, and ask them to sign or initial at the bottom. When they sign the book any problems after that are not on the officials, the coach signed that everything was okay. If you don't check the book, and the scorekeeper says it was fixed in time, (prior to the 10 minute mark) how can you assess a technical foul?