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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 09:11am
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Player control scenario

This situation came up last night during a NCAA-W D2 exhibition game. I would greatly appreciate everyone's thoughts. I am in the T position. Here's the lead-up:

A1 dribbling the ball in A's frontcourt (my PCA) while being defended by B1. B1 reaches in (no contact) and knocks the ball loose. The ball deflects hard off A1's leg and is bouncing toward the endline. I stay with the ball, unsure if L has seen the deflection and want to make sure we get the OOB call correct. B2 comes from the corner and jumps, intercepting the ball before it lands out of bounds and throwing it back on the court. From my perspective, the ball clearly came to rest on B2's hand before she threw it back onto the court ... so I turned to the shot clock operator who was right next to me and said, "That's a reset." She responded by resetting the shot clock to 30 and then starting it when A1 received the ball on the save from B2.

After the game in the dressing room, the L asked me why I had the shot clock reset and I explained to him what I had seen. He disagreed, indicating that he didn't believe B2 had actually possessed the ball long enough for it to be considered control regardless of whether or not it had come to rest in her palm. We had a spirited discussion and reviewed the appropriate rules.

Rule 2-11:
Art. 6. Stop the timing device and reset it:
a. When team control is re-established after the team loses possession of the
ball;
Note: The mere touching of the ball by an opponent does not start a new
shot-clock period when the same team remains in control of the ball.

Rule 4-15:
Art. 1. A player shall be in control when:
a. Holding a live ball; or
b. Dribbling a live ball while inbounds.

Right call or wrong call?
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 09:22am
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Seems like the right call from your description.

There is no time requirement for a player to be holding the ball in order to determine control. Would you have granted a timeout in that moment (forgetting for the moment whether she was jumping out of bounds)(and I can't even remember if THAT'S relevant for NCAAW)
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 09:24am
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Ignoring the NCAA restriction on granting a TO to an airborne player who is going to land OOB, would you have granted a TO if it had been requested? If so, then reset the shot clock. If not, then don't.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMOzebra View Post
He disagreed, indicating that he didn't believe B2 had actually possessed the ball long enough for it to be considered control regardless of whether or not it had come to rest in her palm.
Remove the incorrect information & all that is left is the truth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMOzebra View Post
so I turned to the shot clock operator who was right next to me and said, "That's a reset."
You didnt really turn, did you?
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Last edited by tref; Wed Oct 31, 2012 at 10:42am.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 10:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
would you have granted a TO if it had been requested?
I considered this while driving home from the game last night. Truthfully, I'm not sure if I would have or not. Perhaps I was a bit too hasty in calling for the reset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tref
You didnt really turn, did you?
Yes, my head ... just enough to where I hoped she (the shot clock operator) would realize I was talking to her!
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 10:46am
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Too little too late

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMOzebra View Post
Yes, my head ... just enough to where I hoped she (the shot clock operator) would realize I was talking to her!
Last time I did that I missed a FF1 that my partner called, but it should've been upgraded to a FF2 & I had no info to provide... well, until I watched the film that is
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 10:54am
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I have no problem with how you interpreted and handled the situation. For what it's worth, in the NBA:

If a player is saving the ball, a throw equals a reset when applicable, while a bat would keep the shot clock the same.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 11:36am
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I think this comes down to judgement of whether you think the player caught it or not. Both of you could have been right depending on how long each of you felt it was in contact with the hand.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Wed Oct 31, 2012 at 12:37pm.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 11:38am
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Maybe something to think about here...if she really had control of the ball, why did she not throw it to one of her teammates instead of an opponent?

Not saying you were wrong...you seem to be questioning yourself as to whether or not she had control...so just another question to think about.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 01:02pm
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Control doesn't mean you have the ability to aim. Running after a ball bouncing out of bounds you grab it with two hands as you fall out and just throw it back in over your shoulder. Control and ability to aim are mutually exclusive.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 01:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
Control and ability to aim are mutually exclusive.
????

Really?
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 01:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
Control doesn't mean you have the ability to aim. Running after a ball bouncing out of bounds you grab it with two hands as you fall out and just throw it back in over your shoulder. Control and ability to aim are mutually exclusive.
Mutually exclusive???

Really???

So if you have control, you can't aim? And if you can aim, then you don't have control?

I attempted to give SWMoZebra another tool to use in rethinking his play...and this is what you come back with?:
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 01:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
????

Really?
I think he meant "not synonymous"
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 01:42pm
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Having control helps aim but having control doesn't necessarily mean you will always get the pass where you want it to go.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2012, 01:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I think he meant "not synonymous"
Yes more that. You need control to at least have a chance at aim. Not mutually exclusive. My vocabulary is getting worse by the day. Ack It would be easier if English had been my second language.
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