Injured Player Scenario.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Below is a play that I have received conflicting opinions from various NFHS soccer officials. I would like to entertain rules (NFHS Rules only please) for this play. Thank you in advance.


Play No. 1: Team A has control of the ball near the touchline in its own half of the field. A1 trips, twists his ankle, falls to the ground. The Referee stops play to ascertain the playing condition of A1and whether A1 wants to remain in the game or leave the game as an injured player. A1 tells the Referee that he is okay and wants to remain in the game. The whole sequence of events takes less than thirty seconds.

Scenario No. 1.1: The Referee does not signal the Timer to stop the Game Clock while attending to A1. A1 remains in the game.

Scenario No. 1.2: When the Referee stopped play he signaled the Timer to stop the Game Clock before talking to A1. A1 remains in the game.

Scenario No. 1.3: When the Referee stopped play he signaled the Timer to stop the Game Clock before talking to A1. A1 must leave the game because the Referee signaled the Timer to stop the Game Clock to attend to A1, and A1 cannot re-enter until the next opportunity for his team to substitute.


Which Scenario is correct?

[WinterWillie]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Below is a play that I have received conflicting opinions from various NFHS soccer officials. I would like to entertain rules (NFHS Rules only please) for this play. Thank you in advance.


Play No. 1: Team A has control of the ball near the touchline in its own half of the field. A1 trips, twists his ankle, falls to the ground. The Referee stops play to ascertain the playing condition of A1and whether A1 wants to remain in the game or leave the game as an injured player. A1 tells the Referee that he is okay and wants to remain in the game. The whole sequence of events takes less than thirty seconds.

Scenario No. 1.1: The Referee does not signal the Timer to stop the Game Clock while attending to A1. A1 remains in the game.

Scenario No. 1.2: When the Referee stopped play he signaled the Timer to stop the Game Clock before talking to A1. A1 remains in the game.

Scenario No. 1.3: When the Referee stopped play he signaled the Timer to stop the Game Clock before talking to A1. A1 must leave the game because the Referee signaled the Timer to stop the Game Clock to attend to A1, and A1 cannot re-enter until the next opportunity for his team to substitute.


Which Scenario is correct?

You never state what the restart will be.

[Edited by WinterWillie on Aug 10th, 2004 at 10:44 AM]

[jprideaux]

Restart in NFHS when one team has clear control of the ball is usually IDFK for that team, regardless of the status of the injured player. I won't say always because some members here are very creative in coming up with exceptions to always and never.

John

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The restart is not what is important in this play. The problem is whether the clock should be stopped and if the clock is stopped does A1 have to leave the game. Do not worry about the restart.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

MTD,
The injured player rule was changed this past February and is posted on the NFHS website. Of course, the new rule books are out, but I missed our associations first clinic, so I don't have a copy yet, and therefore, don't know what changes they made to the relevant play rulings.

Previously, the player only had to leave the game if that player was "attended to on the field." Now the rule has been modified to:
(From the NFHS website released 2/2/04)
Rule 3-3-1(d)2: d. Replace, “when an injured player(s) from either team is attended to on the field: with “when a player(s) from either team is injured:”

2. “The injured player(s) shall leave the field and may be replaced.”

It seems that now the only criterion for making a player leave the game is the referee's decision that the player is, in fact, injured.
I can tell you for sure that last season the player did NOT have to leave the game in your situation per 3.3.1SitD.

As for stopping the clock or not, it seems that the referee has the discretion to do either while determining whether or not A1 is injured, but my opinion is to not stop the clock until I decide that A1 is injured. Naturally, once A1 is determined to be injured the clock MUST be stopped, per 6-2-3a.
For those reasons, I would select 1.1 from your list for handling this situation. When I get my new book, I'll post again on this thread with those updated play rulings.

PS
1. According to 9-3-3 I would have a drop ball for the restart, not an IFK, since I would rule that no team had clear possession once A1 went down.

2. This part of 1.3 is not quite correct: "and A1 cannot re-enter until the next opportunity for his team to substitute." If the player is determined to be injured and made to leave the field, his team could elect to play short-handed. In that case A1 may re-enter the field at the next stoppage of play, 3.3.1SitJ(b).
Only a teammate who is replacing A1 would have to wait until the next opportunity to substitute, if that team elected to play short right after the injury.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
... snip ... PS
1. According to 9-3-3 I would have a drop ball for the restart, not an IFK, since I would rule that no team had clear possession once A1 went down.

I would rule that no team had clear possession if no team had clear possession, or that one team had clear possession if that team had clear possession.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by CecilOne

I would rule that no team had clear possession if no team had clear possession, or that one team had clear possession if that team had clear possession.

Oops sorry, I believe I misread the original post. I quickly scanned and thought I saw that A1 had control of the ball near the touchline and that this player then twisted an ankle and went down.
If that were the case and no one else was around, I would have a drop ball due to no possession. Of course, if another player on Team A has possession at the time A1 gets hurt then the correct restart is an IFK.

[CecilOne]

My comments on the other forum:

First:
Originally posted by CecilOne:
I don't agree that the clock must be stopped fo an injury check and certainly not just for a substitution. If the official determines that play should stop to attend or remove an injured player, the clock must be stopped.

It is no longer a rule that the player must be atended to require removal, only the official's judgement that the player is injured and that will cause a lot of arguments this season.
------------------------------------------------------------
And an update today:

Our State Interpreter say that the NFHS interpretation is that the player who might be injured must be removed if the official stops the clock, even if not actually injured.

That makes me agree even more with the comment "it is far simpler to just NOT stop the clock until we make the assessment. After all, how long does it take to .. snip ... ask ".. snip ... Are you OK?" ". I ask "do you need help?", similar but more specific to the rule.

And I for one don't care if the clock runs out while I'm doing this.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Oops sorry, I believe I misread the original post. I quickly scanned and thought I saw that A1 had control of the ball near the touchline and that this player then twisted an ankle and went down.
If that were the case and no one else was around, I would have a drop ball due to no possession. Of course, if another player on Team A has possession at the time A1 gets hurt then the correct restart is an IFK.

Why does it matter if it's another player or the one who had control at the moment of the injury?

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by CecilOne

Why does it matter if it's another player or the one who had control at the moment of the injury?

It matters because you are looking at possession when the referee stops play, not at the moment of the injury.
The referee is not stopping the game precisely at the moment of the injury, but rather stops the game after it occurs in order to allow the player to receive medical attention and for his removal from the field.

Since, clear possession of the ball needs to be judged at the time the referee stops play, I can't see ruling that a player who is down and hurt has possession of the ball.

[CecilOne]

There seems to be no disagreement among us that the book says an injured player must leave and the book says nothing about the clock and there is no published contradictory interpretation known to us.

The only disagreement is that our interpreter in MD said that the NFHS interprets the rule to mean the player leaves if the clock is stopped, even if ITOJ the player is not injured. Said it more than once, even after I asked if that was different than the book. None of us think that is a good idea, so let's not get on each other about it.

My guess is that the NFHS might think that officials would only stop the clock for an actual injury, so the alleged interpretation would follow "logically" from their changing the rule to prevent coaches from leaving injured players in the game by not attending to them on the field.

As to determining whether a player is injured, the question "Do you need help?" is my starting point. If yes, obvious. If no, and I feel (yes, subjective) there is risk in the player continuing or they are hiding something, then I treat it as an injury. If there is reason (in my mind) to think I have knowledge of risk to the player, they don't play.

As I said before, there is no real reason not to check or observe a player without stopping the clock, until you determine there is an injury.

[Nevadaref]

I took the NFHS Part I written test today and picked-up my new rules book. This gave me a chance to speak with our local director. I ran the injury scenario by him, and he agreed that the official should not stop the clock when merely determining if a player is injured. However, if this takes more than a few seconds, the referee should rule that the player is injured and stop the clock (meaning that the player must leave the game). Otherwise, teams will use this as a way to waste time.

Additionally, I agree with Cecil that once the referee stops the clock, that player must leave the game.

PS Interesting to see that you are in MD. I officiated basketball and lacrosse in Montgomery Cty, but not soccer.

[CecilOne]

Again, I didn't say it "our interpreter in MD said that the NFHS interprets the rule to mean the player leaves if the clock is stopped". I did not say it and I still think it contradicts or at least extends what it says in the book.

Of course, on the surface it does not matter whether the rules are different from state to state. The problem is interstate games and multi-state officials like me. Even then it would not matter if one state said "this is the rule", without saying the NFHS said so.