Throw In Violation

[bob jenkins]

A1’s throw-in hits an official who is on the court. After the ball hits the official, A1 enters the court and screens B2 such that A2 is the first to touch the ball.

Fed ruling?

NCAA ruling?

(assume that the screen is otherwise legal -- time and distance, not moving unless in the same path and direction, within the frame ...)

[APG]

Not sure what the issue is here...seems pretty straight forward legal play unless I'm overlooking something?

[tref]

Although 4.4.4 deals with a live ball already in t/c inbounds, I think it would apply for throw-ins as well.

The thrower cant come get it because it touched an official though. And if I'm envisioning the play correctly, what is the official doing on the court in the first place?

[JugglingReferee]

Play on as far as I can tell.

The official is part of the inbound court when it hits him, so the pass becomes a bounce pass of sorts. The ball has been released by the TerI, so A1 can come back inbounds. Still ok. The screen was legal.

The only thing I can say is that's it's an unfortunate thing to be hit by the ball while inbounds.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

Although 4.4.4 deals with a live ball already in t/c inbounds, I think it would apply for throw-ins as well.

The thrower cant come get it because it touched an official though. And if I'm envisioning the play correctly, what is the official doing on the court in the first place?

There are some guys around here teaching/promoting that the trail be inbounds on sideline throwins. Not sure why. Doesn't make sense to me.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A1’s throw-in hits an official who is on the court. After the ball hits the official, A1 enters the court and screens B2 such that A2 is the first to touch the ball.

Fed ruling?

NCAA ruling?

(assume that the screen is otherwise legal -- time and distance, not moving unless in the same path and direction, within the frame ...)

FED Rule 9-2-6: The thrown ball shall not touch the thrower in the court before it touches or is touched by another player.

NCAA Rule 9-5.1.f: (The thrower-in shall not) Touch the playing court or touch the ball in the playing court before it has touched another player.

Am I mis-reading / mis-interpreting the first part of the NCAA rule? NCAA would have the play be a violation?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

FED Rule 9-2-6: The thrown ball shall not touch the thrower in the court before it touches or is touched by another player.

NCAA Rule 9-5.1.f: (The thrower-in shall not) Touch the playing court or touch the ball in the playing court before it has touched another player.

Am I mis-reading / mis-interpreting the first part of the NCAA rule? NCAA would have the play be a violation?

So a thrower-in must stay out of bounds until the ball touches another player? If so, that's ridiculous.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

So a thrower-in must stay out of bounds until the ball touches another player? If so, that's ridiculous.

I'm sure it's supposed to be read as 2 separate acts before and after the "or". Just poorly written.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm sure it's supposed to be read as 2 separate acts before and after the "or". Just poorly written.

But there's also the (equally poorly written) 9-5.1.e: Carry or hand the ball to a teammate who is on the playing court.

It seems to me that either the "Carry" (in e) and "Touch the playing court" (in "f") are redundant or the "Touch the playing court" really is a violation, or the "Carry" means something other than what I think it does.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There are some guys around here teaching/promoting that the trail be inbounds on sideline throwins. Not sure why. Doesn't make sense to me.

I am. I bounce the ball to the thrower-in on the sideline and I'm on the court a few feet.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

I am. I bounce the ball to the thrower-in on the sideline and I'm on the court a few feet.

In 2-man I can see doing that, but I don't see what purpose it serves in 3-man.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm sure it's supposed to be read as 2 separate acts before and after the "or". Just poorly written.

That has to be the case. I've never seen the thrower stay OOB during EOG situations when he rolls the throw-in from the endline to halfcourt.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In 2-man I can see doing that, but I don't see what purpose it serves in 3-man.

Camron (in Oregon) only works 2-man, I believe.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

I am. I bounce the ball to the thrower-in on the sideline and I'm on the court a few feet.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In 2-man I can see doing that, but I don't see what purpose it serves in 3-man.

Yes, my HS games are 100% 2-man. But even in 2-man, Why? It reduces your vision of the court. To cover the throw in from such a position, you can no longer see out into the court as much, you've closed off your field of vision from such a position. From a position OOB and more towards the backcourt from thrower you can see a lot more of the court than if you are inbounds. I'd say that it is even more important to be OOB in 2-man since you are responsible for more of the court.

[Zoochy]

What if A1 slowly rolls the ball onto the court w/o any pressure? A2 is near the ball as it rolls up the court. A1 now enters the court. This type of action happens all the time. I have never seen a violation called on Team A.
Per your NCAA ruling, is this a violation????