Throw in Violation?

[Jeff the Ref]

Here we go! Team A scores and calls time out giving team B throw in from anywhere along endline. Upon resumption Team B thrower while running the endline bounces the ball several times to the floor on the OOB side and. Violation for not throwing ball directly in bounds or to another teammate OOB?

[Hawks Coach]

No violation, as long as 5 seconds don't pass. The rule only states that the ball must be released toward the court on a throw-in prior to the end of the 5 second count.

BTW - I would employ legal counsel if you intend to use the word ref in your name - that would apply to you too bktballr*f

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
BTW - I would employ legal counsel if you intend to use the word ref in your name - that would apply to you too bktballr*f

Here I am! Let those bastards come get me!

[Jeff the Ref]

Yes...that is where the problem occurs. I have had several discussions with many veteran officials, and have received many different interpretations of this rule. If the thrower releases the ball to the floor OOB, is that not a violation for not having relased the ball toward the court inbounds? What's your take fellas?

[Danvrapp]

So what happens if the player deliberately touches the ball to the floor? How is that technically different than the player dribbling the ball? What if the player plain 'ol drops the ball, and it remains out of bounds until he picks it up again? Do you penalize a player for having slippy fingers?

[Jeff the Ref]

Well, that all depends, did I contribute to the slip by improperly handing (bouncing) the ball to the thrower, or was it a result of something he/she was doing!

[Brian Watson]

Originally posted by Danvrapp
So what happens if the player deliberately touches the ball to the floor? How is that technically different than the player dribbling the ball?

This is not a violation becasue the rule book says so, rule 4.

Now, I think we are all able to realize that a dribble is very different from releasing the ball toward the court.

I guess it boils down to this... Does the rule book say a player can't dribble during the inbounds sequence?? I have never seen it, so let it go, it is legal.

[Jeff the Ref]

Brian, my reading of 4.15.1 is that the dribble is by a player in control. Control defined by a player holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds! Thrower is not inbounds, thus it can't be a dribble. See the issue? Additionally, 7.6.1 states that the thrower shall "release the ball on a pass directly into the court"!

Fuel for thought!

[Bart Tyson]

No violation, dribble, drop, bounce, fumble, bat, push, place, call it what you want. 5 sec to inbound.

[Brian Watson]

You answered your own question.

The player must relese the ball on a pass directly into the court within 5 seconds. There are no other movement restrictions, what he does to the point he inbounds is moot. The only implied restriction is that the pass cannot touch OOB, before going inbounds.

When the NF wants to restrict some action, they outline the restricted action with the related section. If the NF wanted any other actions during an inbound play to be a violation, they would have put all restrictions in this area of the rule book. This is why the three foot space is outlined in the spot throw in section.

Don't go looking for violations that are not there. There are plenty obvious things we can get without stretching the rules like silly putty.

[Jeff the Ref]

Brian, thanks for the input. They must have got it wrong at the playoff game I was watching last weekend. Boy...talk about an ice cream headache!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jeff the Ref
Brian, thanks for the input. They must have got it wrong at the playoff game I was watching last weekend. Boy...talk about an ice cream headache!

Jeff,

On a throw-in after a made basket, can the thrower pass the ball to a teammate who is OOB? Sure he can. But it's not a pass directly inbounds is it? Dribbling the ball is no different.

Tony

[Jeff the Ref]

Thanks Tony,

I agree, it is specifically stated in the rules that he/she may do that. I talked to the officials involved, and their take was that the rule states that it shall be released on a pass directly on to the court specifically! The only exception allowed is the pass to a teammate OOB.

I'll allow a dribble OOB though, sounds reasonable.

[Brian Watson]

Sounds like these guys need a rule book refresher, or to come out of the stone age.

Nothing worse than a stubborn ref who is wrong.