Does your association/assignor charge schools/referees

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Because it is the association/assignor's business expense, not mine. The assignor already gets paid by me (8% of my salary) to assign me games and the association already gets a registration fee from me that covers my tangible administrative costs. BTW, in my association officials only pay the $5 per seat cost if they register after the set deadline.

So obviously there are some assignors/associations that agree with my stance that the MEMBERSHIP (not employees or soldiers) should not be burdened with the normal operating costs of Arbiter.

Those assignors/association just increase their percentage or membership dues to cover additional expenses (or reduce the game fees and have the schools pay for it). The fact that some list it as a separate item still doesn't change anything. I suppose you'd rather they just take an addition % out of each game...but that would make those that work a lot of games pay more for it for those that work few games. If you don't have membership dues that could include it, a flat fee for something that is a flat cost/official expense is the fairest way to do it.

Still, no matter how you slice the pie, it comes out the same.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still, no matter how you slice the pie, it comes out the same.

“You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I’m not hungry enough to eat six.”

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Those assignors/association just increase their percentage or membership dues to cover additional expenses (or reduce the game fees and have the schools pay for it). The fact that some list it as a separate item still doesn't change anything. I suppose you'd rather they just take an addition % out of each game...but that would make those that work a lot of games pay more for it for those that work few games. If you don't have membership dues that could include it, a flat fee for something that is a flat cost/official expense is the fairest way to do it.

Still, no matter how you slice the pie, it comes out the same.

You type as if I don't know the accounting of the association before and after it purchased Arbiter. Do you seriously think I would make the comment I made without knowing personally how things were done and accounted for. Are you really that arrogant or do you just think everybody is stupid?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Are you really that arrogant or do you just think everybody is stupid?

Both.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You type as if I don't know the accounting of the association before and after it purchased Arbiter. Do you seriously think I would make the comment I made without knowing personally how things were done and accounted for. Are you really that arrogant or do you just think everybody is stupid?

Neither. I just think too many people worry about about too many trivial things.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Neither. I just think too many people worry about about too many trivial things.

I would say arrogant. You don't think anyone who is part of association has any right to know how their fees are spent.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I would say arrogant. You don't think anyone who is part of association has any right to know how their fees are spent.

No, that is not what i'm saying.

I'm saying that it doesn't matter if they charge to 2 fees of $40 each or one of $80 (with the details perhaps revealed elsewhere). Some are complaining that they are getting a their charges split into two when it doesn't matter. The total is the same.

[brainbrian]

Sorry I didn't check back in for a while but thanks to everyone for their feedback.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I believe most of us are independent contractors and if we do not like the fees we have to pay we can always not work for those people.

Peace

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No, that is not what i'm saying.

I'm saying that it doesn't matter if they charge to 2 fees of $40 each or one of $80 (with the details perhaps revealed elsewhere). Some are complaining that they are getting a their charges split into two when it doesn't matter. The total is the same.

That is not what BNR is saying...not what Rich is saying either. Seems like some of us agree that when an assignor chooses to use an administrative tool that will make his/her job easier (Arbiter, Stripezone, etc.), then they should pay for that out of their current earnings, not turn around and increase the fees that we pay. Add to that the fact that some assignors do this without telling their officials why, and you have an integrity issue to boot...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That is not what BNR is saying...not what Rich is saying either. Seems like some of us agree that when an assignor chooses to use an administrative tool that will make his/her job easier (Arbiter, Stripezone, etc.), then they should pay for that out of their current earnings, not turn around and increase the fees that we pay. Add to that the fact that some assignors do this without telling their officials why, and you have an integrity issue to boot...

I am really not disagreeing with BNR. I am just pointing out that we are mostly independent contractors (or should be) and it is up to us to decide if we will do business with someone (an association) further based on the fees involved. In my area, we pay a $5 fee for our Arbiter and we belong to the largest consortium of assignors that use the Arbiter system across the country and that is a sore spot for everyone around here. But if you want games do you not pay the fee?

I think transparency is key and best, but if they do not tell you all the fees, then you either continue with that group or go to another that does.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That is not what BNR is saying...not what Rich is saying either. Seems like some of us agree that when an assignor chooses to use an administrative tool that will make his/her job easier (Arbiter, Stripezone, etc.), then they should pay for that out of their current earnings, not turn around and increase the fees that we pay. Add to that the fact that some assignors do this without telling their officials why, and you have an integrity issue to boot...

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Prior to 2010 my association did not use Arbiter. A new commissioner was voted in and part of his platform was that he would purchase Arbiter and pay for it out of his assignor's commission. He won the election and Arbiter was purchased with private funds. The following season Arbiter was renewed out of the business account with no increase in dues to our membership. Our business account always had unspent funds at the end of each season so the dues that were already in place were sufficient to cover the costs of Arbiter. Only folks who joined the association each year after the Arbiter bill was paid were required to pay for their seat. It was $5 in addition to their normal association dues.

So, yes, in the end "we" are paying for Arbiter. However the membership did not incur any additional costs when we went from "pen and paper" to automation. If it came to a point where a dues increase was needed to cover Arbiter I know our membership wouldn't be very receptive to it.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Seems like some of us agree that when an assignor chooses to use an administrative tool that will make his/her job easier (Arbiter, Stripezone, etc.), then they should pay for that out of their current earnings, not turn around and increase the fees that we pay. Add to that the fact that some assignors do this without telling their officials why, and you have an integrity issue to boot...

Maybe I'm in the minority on this, but I feel like a software tool like Arbiter makes my life a lot easier as well, so if that costs an extra couple of bucks, I'm happy to pay it. I like having a single place where I can set my blocks, see (and be able to export in different formats) all of my assignments, see who my partners are and their contact info, find school's addresses/maps, etc.