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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 21, 2012, 11:52am
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
You type as if I don't know the accounting of the association before and after it purchased Arbiter. Do you seriously think I would make the comment I made without knowing personally how things were done and accounted for. Are you really that arrogant or do you just think everybody is stupid?

Neither. I just think too many people worry about about too many trivial things.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 21, 2012, 03:36pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Neither. I just think too many people worry about about too many trivial things.
I would say arrogant. You don't think anyone who is part of association has any right to know how their fees are spent.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 21, 2012, 03:49pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I would say arrogant. You don't think anyone who is part of association has any right to know how their fees are spent.
No, that is not what i'm saying.

I'm saying that it doesn't matter if they charge to 2 fees of $40 each or one of $80 (with the details perhaps revealed elsewhere). Some are complaining that they are getting a their charges split into two when it doesn't matter. The total is the same.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Sun Oct 21, 2012 at 04:13pm.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:02am
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Thumbs up Thanks everyone

Sorry I didn't check back in for a while but thanks to everyone for their feedback.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:20am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I believe most of us are independent contractors and if we do not like the fees we have to pay we can always not work for those people.

Peace
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
No, that is not what i'm saying.

I'm saying that it doesn't matter if they charge to 2 fees of $40 each or one of $80 (with the details perhaps revealed elsewhere). Some are complaining that they are getting a their charges split into two when it doesn't matter. The total is the same.
That is not what BNR is saying...not what Rich is saying either. Seems like some of us agree that when an assignor chooses to use an administrative tool that will make his/her job easier (Arbiter, Stripezone, etc.), then they should pay for that out of their current earnings, not turn around and increase the fees that we pay. Add to that the fact that some assignors do this without telling their officials why, and you have an integrity issue to boot...
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 02:11pm
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
That is not what BNR is saying...not what Rich is saying either. Seems like some of us agree that when an assignor chooses to use an administrative tool that will make his/her job easier (Arbiter, Stripezone, etc.), then they should pay for that out of their current earnings, not turn around and increase the fees that we pay. Add to that the fact that some assignors do this without telling their officials why, and you have an integrity issue to boot...
I am really not disagreeing with BNR. I am just pointing out that we are mostly independent contractors (or should be) and it is up to us to decide if we will do business with someone (an association) further based on the fees involved. In my area, we pay a $5 fee for our Arbiter and we belong to the largest consortium of assignors that use the Arbiter system across the country and that is a sore spot for everyone around here. But if you want games do you not pay the fee?

I think transparency is key and best, but if they do not tell you all the fees, then you either continue with that group or go to another that does.

Peace
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 02:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
That is not what BNR is saying...not what Rich is saying either. Seems like some of us agree that when an assignor chooses to use an administrative tool that will make his/her job easier (Arbiter, Stripezone, etc.), then they should pay for that out of their current earnings, not turn around and increase the fees that we pay. Add to that the fact that some assignors do this without telling their officials why, and you have an integrity issue to boot...
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Prior to 2010 my association did not use Arbiter. A new commissioner was voted in and part of his platform was that he would purchase Arbiter and pay for it out of his assignor's commission. He won the election and Arbiter was purchased with private funds. The following season Arbiter was renewed out of the business account with no increase in dues to our membership. Our business account always had unspent funds at the end of each season so the dues that were already in place were sufficient to cover the costs of Arbiter. Only folks who joined the association each year after the Arbiter bill was paid were required to pay for their seat. It was $5 in addition to their normal association dues.

So, yes, in the end "we" are paying for Arbiter. However the membership did not incur any additional costs when we went from "pen and paper" to automation. If it came to a point where a dues increase was needed to cover Arbiter I know our membership wouldn't be very receptive to it.
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Last edited by Raymond; Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:20pm.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 02:38pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
So, yes, in the end "we" are paying for Arbiter. However the membership did not incur any additional costs when we went from "pen and paper" to automation. If it came to a point where a dues increase was needed to cover Arbiter I know our membership wouldn't be very receptive to it.
I agree and I feel the assignors or conferences should incur the costs. After all they are the ones that claim they love the system. All it does is make us "slaves" to the assignors will and when we decline a game we have an administrator that acts like we are all children because we decline a game. I am also tired of filling out paperwork that has all that personal information on Arbiter and it seems to be never used. That system benefits them, it does not really benefit the official.

Peace
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 02:59pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am really not disagreeing with BNR. I am just pointing out that we are mostly independent contractors (or should be) and it is up to us to decide if we will do business with someone (an association) further based on the fees involved. In my area, we pay a $5 fee for our Arbiter and we belong to the largest consortium of assignors that use the Arbiter system across the country and that is a sore spot for everyone around here. But if you want games do you not pay the fee?

I think transparency is key and best, but if they do not tell you all the fees, then you either continue with that group or go to another that does.

Peace
All associations in WA use arbiter, we have to. It is mandated by the State. So we all knew up front what was going on...our local association was one of the first to use arbiter...BUT, we voted on it before hand and knew that we would be charged the user fee and it would be taken out of our checks. The whole thing was up front and above reproach.

Good friend of mine in a different western state got his first check, noticed that his %deducted per game had gone up from 8% to 10%, and asked why...he was told that the increase was to cover the user fee for arbiter...no way it costs that much per person, and no way they should have sprung it on them without being up front about it. And the next closest association to where he lives is over 100 miles away.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
Seems like some of us agree that when an assignor chooses to use an administrative tool that will make his/her job easier (Arbiter, Stripezone, etc.), then they should pay for that out of their current earnings, not turn around and increase the fees that we pay. Add to that the fact that some assignors do this without telling their officials why, and you have an integrity issue to boot...
Maybe I'm in the minority on this, but I feel like a software tool like Arbiter makes my life a lot easier as well, so if that costs an extra couple of bucks, I'm happy to pay it. I like having a single place where I can set my blocks, see (and be able to export in different formats) all of my assignments, see who my partners are and their contact info, find school's addresses/maps, etc.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:03pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
See...some of us around here CAN read!
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:37pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
All associations in WA use arbiter, we have to. It is mandated by the State. So we all knew up front what was going on...our local association was one of the first to use arbiter...BUT, we voted on it before hand and knew that we would be charged the user fee and it would be taken out of our checks. The whole thing was up front and above reproach.
Well it was forced down our throat. We even were threatened to pay for it as a larger organizations of several smaller organizations. Then we were told that the schools would use the information. Now we have many personal information on a website that can be viewed by who knows and never seems to be used when we go to a school. We still have to fill out pages of paper work that could be verified by someone from the school. It is a joke if you ask me.

Peace
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:12pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Well it was forced down our throat. We even were threatened to pay for it as a larger organizations of several smaller organizations. Then we were told that the schools would use the information. Now we have many personal information on a website that can be viewed by who knows and never seems to be used when we go to a school. We still have to fill out pages of paper work that could be verified by someone from the school. It is a joke if you ask me.

Peace
That is ridiculous...al least here all the schools use it also. They can look at their schedule on arbiter and see who the officials are for their upcoming games.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:30pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
That is ridiculous...al least here all the schools use it also. They can look at their schedule on arbiter and see who the officials are for their upcoming games.
They claim they use it, but they clearly do not use the information to cut checks or for us to fill out for W9s and other tax or payment information. That to me is what is silly and if I am basically threatened to put all that information and schools refuse to use it.

Peace
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