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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 11:23am
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Intentional Miss

A-1 is just above the free throw line where he has picked up his dribble. Player B-1 is denying all of his passing options but leaves his path to the basket open. A-1 turns and throws the ball off the backboard, runs in catches it and lays it in. I have nothing and the game continues. Players lightly chirping it was an intentional miss and a travel. At the next stop in play, I ask my fellow partner his thoughts and he shrugs. Every once in awhile a rare play happens that I second guess my judgement. Is this a legal play as I ruled?

How about another one...
The night before A-1 driving strong to the basket mistimes when he should leave the floor(leaves to early) and comes up short on his finger role and the ball gets nothing but air. He lands, catches the ball and dribbles the ball. Again I have nothing. I saw a legitimate shot attempt and a rebound.

Thoughts?
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 11:29am
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First play is legal.

Second play is a judgement play...since you ruled it a try, you got it correct.
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 11:33am
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9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each.
RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 11:56am
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Guess they should have cut off his path to the hoop by boxing out.
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 11:58am
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Definition of a try..............

Not one to put definitions on the site, but if you go to rule 4 and read the definition of a try, you will find that both of your situations are legal plays.......

Agree with APG 100%
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 12:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick43 View Post
A-1 is just above the free throw line where he has picked up his dribble. Player B-1 is denying all of his passing options but leaves his path to the basket open. A-1 turns and throws the ball off the backboard, runs in catches it and lays it in. I have nothing and the game continues. Players lightly chirping it was an intentional miss and a travel. At the next stop in play, I ask my fellow partner his thoughts and he shrugs. Every once in awhile a rare play happens that I second guess my judgement. Is this a legal play as I ruled?

How about another one...
The night before A-1 driving strong to the basket mistimes when he should leave the floor(leaves to early) and comes up short on his finger role and the ball gets nothing but air. He lands, catches the ball and dribbles the ball. Again I have nothing. I saw a legitimate shot attempt and a rebound.

Thoughts?
Have you ever read anything that says "intentional misses" are different than "regular" misses?

Knowing the rule book is a good cure for second guessing. Don't let player reaction outweigh rule book study.
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 12:09pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Knowing the rule book is a good cure for second guessing. Don't let player reaction outweigh rule book study.
Right. Even when they say, "TECHNICALLY that's true, but..."
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 12:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick43 View Post
comes up short on his finger role and the ball gets nothing but air. He lands, catches the ball and dribbles the ball. Again I have nothing. I saw a legitimate shot attempt and a rebound.

Thoughts?
Nice to see you posting! However, you now owe Bktballref $5.
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 05:04pm
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Interesting, so if a kid is dribbling the wrong way and makes a bank shot at his opponents basket it does not count because it is a violation as soon as it hits the backboard?
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 05:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainbrian View Post
Interesting, so if a kid is dribbling the wrong way and makes a bank shot at his opponents basket it does not count because it is a violation as soon as it hits the backboard?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each.
RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)
No.

The player would have to touch the ball again. If it goes into his B's basket, the ball is dead, the B is credited with two points, and A has an unrestricted throw-in on the endline.
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 05:50pm
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Equipment ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)
Because it's equipment? It may be used? Be used to do what? Dribble again (not directly stated in the casebook play)? Even if it's definitely not considered to be a try by the official?

I would rather that the NFHS stated that in this situation any throw against one's own backboard is considered a try, in all circumstances, and thus the player can legally catch the ball, and legally start a new dribble.

Other than in this casebook play, where else is "equipment" considered to be relevant to an illegal dribble situation? If he threw the ball against a teammate's legal headband, or a teammate's legal wrist band, that had accidentally fallen onto the floor, could he then legally catch the ball, and legally start a new dribble?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 06:04pm.
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 06:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post

I would rather that the NFHS stated that in this situation any throw against one's own backboard is considered a try, in all circumstances, and thus the player can legally catch the ball, and legally start a new dribble.
Bad idea as that would then automatically make any foul a shooting foul....one that the offensive player may not deserve. All any offensive player would have to do is heave the ball at the backboard while getting fouled in order get an automatic shooting foul.
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 07:03pm
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I Get Ideas, I Get Ideas ...

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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Bad idea.
Not my first one. Won't be my last. I guarantee it.

Note: I still don't like the "equipment" rationale in the casebook ruling.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 08:02pm.
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Old Thu Aug 02, 2012, 08:21pm
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Billy, I agree regarding the rationale, but it's not the only case play where the rationale is, well, irrational.
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Old Fri Aug 03, 2012, 06:03am
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Buy A Vowel ???

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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Billy, I agree regarding the rationale, but it's not the only case play where the rationale is, well, irrationale.
Fixed it for you.
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