intentional swing and miss in SP

[Tap]

I had a blowout adult slowpitch league game recently and the count was 3-1 in favor of a batter on the team way ahead (the blowout status is probably irrelevant). The pitch was inside and low and hit the ground to the side of the plate, nearly between the batter's feet. The batter -- obviously wanting to hit -- intentionally "swung" and missed, which was expected as the bat was just below shoulder level during the "swing." I called it a ball. He stayed and complained that he swung. I repeated that it was a ball and it was not a swing, and I told him to go to 1B. The defense also wasn't happy with me. An unpopular call with all 20+ players on both teams.

I'm 99% sure that he started his purported "swing" before the ball hit the ground, so technically it wasn't dead before he "swung", but he waited until the ball had dropped well out of any possible hitting zone. My reasoning is that he was making a mockery of the game and had no intention to hit the ball, thus he did not swing.

How would everyone else have handled this?

[bluezebra]

He/she may swing to avoid a walk, because he/she would rather hit. A swing is a swing is a swing. In my opinion, you blew it. I can't see any rule that would justify your call.

Bob

[IRISHMAFIA]

ASA 7.4 A STRIKE IS CALLED BY THE UMPIRE.

C. For each legally pitched ball swung at and missed by the batter

Granted, the grammar is weak, but there is the rule which MAY justify Tap's call. It specifically states the batter must swing at the ball. To me, that means s/he must be attempting to hit the ball.

Try calling a strike when the batter lets the bat drop in front of them while the ball passes them and see what type of argument you lose there

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
[B...there is the rule which MAY justify Tap's call...[/B]

From my not-to-good mememory of my days in ASA, was there not also a point of emphasis which discussed a swing versus a check swing. In that discussion it said basically that breaking the wrist, the bat head going across the plate or other similar actions could be used in determining whether a attempt was made at the ball or not, but the ultimate decision was based on the opinion of the umpire as to whether the batter offered at the ball or not.

However, my personal opinion is to call it a stike and move on. If the pitcher has the right to throw an intentional ball, the batter has the right to take an intentional strike. Not to mention: "stike" = one step closer to getting done, "walk" = dang this is a long night.

[Tap]

In hindsight, next time I probably would call a strike next time and let it go, unless he swung only after the ball hit the ground. In this bush league, it probably was not worth the hassle of making the call. But I'm glad Mike game me at least some rule-based support for the call.

[Tap]

Could an analogy be made to a batter, not paying attention, taking a practice swing while in the box just after the pitch leaves the pitcher's hand? In both cases, there is no intent to swing at the ball, and in the practice swing situation I believe that would not be ruled a swing. Just thinking out load--too busy at the moment to go through the book. Will do so this weekend.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Granted, the grammar is weak, but there is the rule which MAY justify Tap's call. It specifically states the batter must swing at the ball. To me, that means s/he must be attempting to hit the ball.

Try calling a strike when the batter lets the bat drop in front of them while the ball passes them and see what type of argument you lose there

If we are going to be that specific about "swing at", it means that the bat must hit the ball or otherwise the batter did not swing at the ball but at some air molecule or mosquito or something. That means there can never be a swinging strike unless the ball is hit foul or foul tipped.

[Dakota]

This same topic (can a swing not be a strike) also comes up in fast pitch. Granted, FP does not declare the ball dead when it hits the ground, but FP has the third strike rule. You will occasionally see quick-thinking batters "swing at" an obviously wild pitch for the third strike and attempt to run to 1st while the catcher is chasing down the ball.

The rule & the umpire's manual on dealing with checked swings does include the idea of the batter actually attempting to hit the ball. However, if the batter swings and the ball is anywhere near the plate at the time, I've got a strike.

[Rick Vietti]

I have seen the same thing in slow pitch games. Guys not wanting to walk but wanting to hit. I always ring up the strike. My philosophy for rec ball is that I want every opportunity to get outs and strikes lead to outs.

I do not have my rule book with me but I do not think it matters if the batter swings at a ball that has hit the ground prior to the attempt at the pitch. It matters if he makes contact with the ball that has hit the ground (slow pitch only)but if he swings and misses after it hits the ground, I ring up the strike (happens all the time in co-ed).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by CecilOne

If we are going to be that specific about "swing at", it means that the bat must hit the ball or otherwise the batter did not swing at the ball but at some air molecule or mosquito or something. That means there can never be a swinging strike unless the ball is hit foul or foul tipped.

Do you ever swat a mosquito? Do you always hit it? Be assured, if you do not swat at the mosquito, you do not have the opportunity to hit the damn thing.

Thanks for proving my point.

[CecilOne]

Yes. Yes. Right. Sorry you missed mine.

[Roger Greene]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
[[/i]

Do you ever swat a mosquito? Do you always hit it? Be assured, if you do not swat at the mosquito, you do not have the opportunity to hit the damn thing.

Thanks for proving my point.

[/QUOTE]

Glen,
Here is a chance to post your mosquito URL. That should drive everone to distraction!!!!
Roger

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by CecilOne
Yes. Yes. Right. Sorry you missed mine.

You are right, I missed your

Never seem to notice any top-postings.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by Roger Greene

Do you ever swat a mosquito? Do you always hit it? Be assured, if you do not swat at the mosquito, you do not have the opportunity to hit the damn thing.

Thanks for proving my point.

Glen,
Here is a chance to post your mosquito URL. That should drive everone to distraction!!!!
Roger [/QUOTE]

Will try and locate him before Tom does.....Oooops
frog got him first....

glen

[Roger Greene]

I was talking about http://www.mosquitoweb.nl/