Local politics blues

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

How is this any different than the "network" I decried in earlier posts and then you soundly poo-poo'ed my comments?

I never said there was no "network" but that it, at least in Portland, doesn't operate to suppress people outside if it. It is more a circle of friends...and there are several of them. When you have 350 people, not everyone is going to be associating in the same circles.

You never replied to my request for an example of even 1 person that was squashed by the "network"...someone that was truly more deserving than others but didn't get a chance. I know of several people who have left Portland and headed north to Vancouver but not one that I can think of was getting an unfair treatment. Most of them were getting very good schedules....some far better than most people with the same experience. They may have been frustrated with things for whatever reason but it wasn't because they were being treated unfairly relative to their peers.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I never said there was no "network" but that it, at least in Portland, doesn't operate to suppress people outside if it. It is more a circle of friends...and there are several of them. When you have 350 people, not everyone is going to be associating in the same circles.

You never replied to my request for an example of even 1 person that was squashed by the "network"...someone that was truly more deserving than others but didn't get a chance. I know of several people who have left Portland and headed north to Vancouver but not one that I can think of was getting an unfair treatment. Most of them were getting very good schedules....some far better than most people with the same experience. They may have been frustrated with things for whatever reason but it wasn't because they were being treated unfairly relative to their peers.

Never saw your request...until now. IM on the way. And the names I send you will be people who were held back from getting "good schedules" until it became so apparent to everyone that they were too good to be held back. They were not part of your assignor's "Network" or "circle" and were not treated fairly because of that. Finally some in that "network" said things like "Hey, Xxxx is really pretty damn good." Then suddenly they start getting better assignments and tournaments. Shocking.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Never saw your request...until now. IM on the way. And the names I send you will be people who were held back from getting "good schedules" until it became so apparent to everyone that they were too good to be held back. They were not part of your assignor's "Network" or "circle" and were not treated fairly because of that. Finally some in that "network" said things like "Hey, Xxxx is really pretty damn good." Then suddenly they start getting better assignments and tournaments. Shocking.

You said something very interesting to me. First thing what is a "good schedule?" Is that not subjective? I know people that work nothing but varsity games and complain about the games they get or that they do not have enough "big games."

Secondly you said they were held back until it was proven they were too good to be held back. OK, did that not mean they proved they could work? Isn't that how it normally goes? And how did they prove they were pretty damn good? Did they go to camps, meetings, trainings or work in front of the right people? I do not read anything nefarious in your claims of not being in someone's circle. If anything, it seems how the individuals you are referencing got games or better games like everyone else I know.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You said something very interesting to me. First thing what is a "good schedule?" Is that not subjective? I know people that work nothing but varsity games and complain about the games they get or that they do not have enough "big games."

Secondly you said they were held back until it was proven they were too good to be held back. OK, did that not mean they proved they could work? Isn't that how it normally goes? And how did they prove they were pretty damn good? Did they go to camps, meetings, trainings or work in front of the right people? I do not read anything nefarious in your claims of not being in someone's circle. If anything, it seems how the individuals you are referencing got games or better games like everyone else I know.

Peace

Or it could be they didn't play golf with the local big-time officials, or weren't on a certain softball team, or didn't go to school with certain people, or didn't work at a certain huge corporation like other officials who never went to camps or work off-season ball or stay in shape.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Or it could be they didn't play golf with the local big-time officials, or weren't on a certain softball team, or didn't go to school with certain people, or didn't work at a certain huge corporation like other officials who never went to camps or work off-season ball or stay in shape.

Anything is possible, but I know a lot of people that do none of those things and are fine in their careers.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Anything is possible, but I know a lot of people that do none of those things and are fine in their careers.

Peace

Well it was a definite problem around here since my area only had one assignor for HS games for multiple decades. Our system is different than your system.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well it was a definite problem around here since my area only had one assignor for HS games for multiple decades. Our system is different than your system.

All systems are going to be different because you have different people running them. Never stated that it does not happen, but there are a lot of people that use excuses or act like they were wronged when others have been through the same process.

And often people that say they are wronged think there is some special procedures that they have to go through, rather than admitting they did not do everything they could normally to get to a certain point. Case in point the examples that Camron gave about the individuals that were identified to him.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Never saw your request...until now. IM on the way. And the names I send you will be people who were held back from getting "good schedules" until it became so apparent to everyone that they were too good to be held back. They were not part of your assignor's "Network" or "circle" and were not treated fairly because of that. Finally some in that "network" said things like "Hey, Xxxx is really pretty damn good." Then suddenly they start getting better assignments and tournaments. Shocking.

Still waiting for the IM.

My guess is that, with 350 officials, the assignor just didn't know exactly how good they were....that they were not treated unfairly but were simply not doing what it took to get known. Or, perhaps, they wanted instant results like too many people and didn't want to earn the games the same way the ones before them did.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still waiting for the IM.

Sent it Friday.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Sent it Friday.

Never arrived...was it in this system's Private Message system?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Never arrived...was it in this system's Private Message system?

Pony express?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Never arrived...was it in this system's Private Message system?

Yep...just resent about 2 minutes ago.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Yep...just resent about 2 minutes ago.

Got it.

And, without mentioning names, every one of the people you mentioned are great officials....among the best.

I know two of them far better than the other two but I just don't, however, think they were held back at all by anyone. Of the two I know well, their rise to the top (and they really did get to the top) may not have been meteoric, but it was not sluggish either. They may have felt frustrated along the way when they didn't pop to the top right away, but they were passing people up along the way and rising faster than their peers.


As for the other two, one I had rarely heard of. He was, by all accounts once I did hear of him, fantastic, but if I never heard of him, how would he and his abilities expect to be known. And as for him being "not good enough for a tournament slot" the assignor here didn't have a say in those choices...it was by vote of his peers and coaches. If it is a vote system and no one knows who you are, how do you expect to get votes. He eventually did but I don't think you can put that on "the network".

Regarding someone else who worked no HS girls games going to a girls HS tourney over him...that, again, has nothing to do with the network. The assignor had no say in who got there. It was, again, by vote of all the peers and coaches in combination with the a tournament selection procedure driven by the vote results as specified in the bylaws. It wasn't a choice made by anyone (outside the voters), but the way things fell together. (The system has since been changed to address that issue).


And the other one was getting great games and was highly recognized as long I as knew them.

Simply put, all 4 of the people you mentioned were/are, as I see it, all ahead of me...some started well after me and passed me up along the way. My rise through organization was slower than theirs.

Yes, there were lessor officials getting better games than them. That will always be the case. The Portland system is just a slow moving system with people have to methodically work their way up proving themselves at each rung of the ladder. Once they get to their top level, they'll be happy they can stay there more than 2 weeks before someone else comes along to displace them.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I never said there was no "network" but that it, at least in Portland, doesn't operate to suppress people outside if it. It is more a circle of friends...and there are several of them. When you have 350 people, not everyone is going to be associating in the same circles.
....

Or it could be they didn't play golf with the local big-time officials, or weren't on a certain softball team, or didn't go to school with certain people, or didn't work at a certain huge corporation, or didn't give the assignor assess to certain contracts.