Block/Charge RA Play: Off Rebound

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by johnny d

APG thanks for posting the rule, apparently my Sheldonesque knowledge of the rules is underestimated because I think I said the exact same thing in the first reply to this post. now if you want to debate the other merits to determine offensive/defensive foul, please continue.

Shall we just close the thread after you reply from now on?

Am I crazy here for thinking maybe no whistle at all is OK? Defender seems to be moving forward some and perhaps embellishes the contact a little (oh no not that again).

[Da Official]

I agree with Cameron and Welpe. Defender moves forward just as offensive player jumps toward the basketball. Either way the play deserved a whistle and in my opinion the defensive block was the correct call.

[rockyroad]

If you pause it at the point of contact, you will see that the shooter is going at an angle INTO the defender who is being shoved at an angle backwards...so I don't get this whole "he was moving into the shooter" thing.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If you pause it at the point of contact, you will see that the shooter is going at an angle INTO the defender who is being shoved at an angle backwards...so I don't get this whole "he was moving into the shooter" thing.

And if you back it up a few more frames, you'll see the defender stepping forward to that point of contact. The defender started with his left foot coming down near the shooters left (pivot) foot with his (the defender) right foot trailing. He steps forward towards the shooter bringing his right foot ahead of his left at which time the two collide.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And if you back it up a few more frames, you'll see the defender stepping forward to that point of contact. The defender started with his left foot coming down near the shooters left (pivot) foot with his (the defender) right foot trailing. He steps forward towards the shooter bringing his right foot ahead of his left at which time the two collide.

But the defender didn't cause the contact...the shooter did.

[APG]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

But the defender didn't cause the contact...the shooter did.

If the defender is moving toward the player with the ball at the time of contact, then he did cause the contact.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

If the defender is moving toward the player with the ball at the time of contact, then he did cause the contact.

Nope...that is not what happened here, imo.

Did the defender move forward? Yes...Was he still moving forward when the contact happened? No...the shooter jumped at an angle into the defender.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

If the defender is moving toward the player with the ball at the time of contact, then he did cause the contact.

Not if he throws his shoulder into the defender. The player does not have to be LGP just to get a foul called in their favor IMO.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yes, but you have to think about doing it. In the course of playing basketball, it wouldn't be a natural movement.

...

True, almost akin to running backwards and officiating at the same time.


Also, on this play A1 initially moves away from the basket and the defender; B1's movement were consistent in maintaining his LGP based on the direction A1 was going. A1 then changes direction and then puts his shoulder into B1 just after B1 replants his right foot.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

But the defender didn't cause the contact...the shooter did.

Causing contact isn't against the rules. In fact, shooters usually cause the contact in most blocks....but it is a block because the defender wasn't legal in some way and the shooter took advantage of it.

In this case, the defender is moving forward at the time of contact. To be moving at the time of contact, the player must have LGP. Let's assume he did obtain it....he did. The rules on maintaining it then say...

Rule 4-23-2c
The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs.

The defender violated this requirement and gave up LGP by doing so. He did not satisfied the requirements of guarding and thus committed the foul.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In this case, the defender is moving forward at the time of contact.

I guess maybe we aren't looking at the same play...the way I see this play (and yes, I just watched it again) the defender was NOT moving forward AT the time of contact. He moved forward, stopped, and then the shooter jumped into him.

Oh well...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And if you back it up a few more frames, you'll see the defender stepping forward to that point of contact. The defender started with his left foot coming down near the shooters left (pivot) foot with his (the defender) right foot trailing. He steps forward towards the shooter bringing his right foot ahead of his left at which time the two collide.

I only watched the video once or twice, but to be honest, if I have to break it down frame by frame to see the defender moving ever-so-slightly forward into the shooter, I'd be comfortable with a PC call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I only watched the video once or twice, but to be honest, if I have to break it down frame by frame to see the defender moving ever-so-slightly forward into the shooter, I'd be comfortable with a PC call.

I had a block in real time for the reasons I listed. I only watched in slow-mo after rocky mentioned that, in a freeze frame, the shooter was moving. No matter how long I froze it, nothing moved in mine.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Da Official

I agree with Cameron and Welpe. Defender moves forward just as offensive player jumps toward the basketball. Either way the play deserved a whistle and in my opinion the defensive block was the correct call.

A block isn't a bad choice if we have to have a whistle here. But the RA has nothing to do with this play.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Am I crazy here for thinking maybe no whistle at all is OK?

You wouldn't be alone. I can't go with a charge, because defender lost any LGP when he was moving in, but I'm not crazy about a block, either, because the shooter caused most of the contact. Still, there was probably enough contact to hinder the shot.