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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 11:55am
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Question Shooter can't shoot (re-enter later?)

NFHS - A1 fouled but can't shoot FTs due to being injured. Sub shoots free throws.

Can A1 EVER return to the game?

Can A1 return to game immediately after sub makes both FTs?

Can A1 return to game immediately after sub makes both FTs and timeout is called?
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 11:57am
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1. Yes
2. No
3. No

A1 was subbed for, and so by rule must sit until after the clock runs.

"Must sit a tick, need not play a tick."
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:09pm
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Question

Thx .. And I should have been more clear ... "withdraw" below could imply A1 is done for the game. Any rule book support to allow a withdrawn player to be temporary?

Rule 8-2: The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury or disqualification, his/her substitute shall attempt the throw(s) unless no substitute is available, in which case any teammate may attempt the throw(s) as selected by the team captain or head coach.
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youmakethecall View Post
Thx .. And I should have been more clear ... "withdraw" below could imply A1 is done for the game. Any rule book support to allow a withdrawn player to be temporary?

Rule 8-2: The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury or disqualification, his/her substitute shall attempt the throw(s) unless no substitute is available, in which case any teammate may attempt the throw(s) as selected by the team captain or head coach.
"Withdraw" is used to differentiate between the "five team members that are legally on the court at any given time" and other "bench personnel". See 4-34-1,2,3. It is not meant to infer the status of a team member, in regards to his/her eligibility to participate as a player.

Case Book 3.1.1 uses this simple definition of "withdraw."
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Last edited by Rob1968; Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 12:31pm. Reason: Additional reference
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:23pm
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Withdraw <> Disqualify
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youmakethecall View Post
Thx .. And I should have been more clear ... "withdraw" below could imply A1 is done for the game. Any rule book support to allow a withdrawn player to be temporary?
Any rule book support to require a withdrawn player to be permanent?

No. Absolutely nothing.
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:52pm
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Thx everyone for the quick responses. In summary, a "rules" coach (i know; purple winged dragon) could use this one to his advantage. And the "rules" official would allow it.

A1 hurt, can't shoot. A2 shoots. A1 has miracle recovery and reports to table and is allowed back in game after time has run off clock.

About right?
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:54pm
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Originally Posted by youmakethecall View Post
Thx everyone for the quick responses. In summary, a "rules" coach (i know; purple winged dragon) could use this one to his advantage. And the "rules" official would allow it.

A1 hurt, can't shoot. A2 shoots. A1 has miracle recovery and reports to table and is allowed back in game after time has run off clock.

About right?

Yes, he could. But in over 20 years, I've never seen one do it.
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:57pm
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 01:06pm
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Originally Posted by youmakethecall View Post
Thx everyone for the quick responses. In summary, a "rules" coach (i know; purple winged dragon) could use this one to his advantage. And the "rules" official would allow it.
Your "rules" official should bear in mind an axiom of all NFHS rules in all sports: promote participation.

If no rule clearly and explicitly ends a team member's participation for the day, then that member may participate. Latching onto "withdraw" as possibly a synonym for "disqualified" is bogus and violates the spirit of promoting participation.
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 03:36pm
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I wonder if the NCAA rule change sparked some creativity in some unscrupulous coaches.
If we see this more and more, we'll eventually see a similar change in NFHS.
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 03:48pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I wonder if the NCAA rule change sparked some creativity in some unscrupulous coaches.
If we see this more and more, we'll eventually see a similar change in NFHS.
Yup, the OP's scenario is why NCAA-M and the NBA have their rules regarding replacing a designated free thrower and/or jumper (NBA) the way they do. Wouldn't surprise me if sometime in the future, NFHS had discussions on adopting a similar rule.
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 04:18pm
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Yup, the OP's scenario is why NCAA-M and the NBA have their rules regarding replacing a designated free thrower
Doesn't the NBA rule differ from the NCAA rule in that the withdrawn player in the NBA actually can't return to the game? I know that used to be the rule. Not sure if it's changed. Perhaps that's the basis for the confusion in the original post.
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Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 04:25pm
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Doesn't the NBA rule differ from the NCAA rule in that the withdrawn player in the NBA actually can't return to the game? I know that used to be the rule. Not sure if it's changed. Perhaps that's the basis for the confusion in the original post.
Yes, he wouldn't be allowed back in the contest unless the injury was due to an unsporting act (FF2/punching foul) or if there's a FF1 call that also happened to be an away-from-the-play foul. In the case of a FF1 call with an injury, the offended coach would pick the shooter from any of the four remaining players on the court. If it's a FF2, then the offended coach could pick anyone including someone from the bench.
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Last edited by APG; Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 04:28pm.
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