Shoot or not to shoot? That is the question.

Cager ref 1989 · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 13, 2006, 12:44am

Airborne shooter A1 beyond 3 pt arc. Release of ball by A1. Shooter A1 returns to floor. Momentum of defender B1 jumping toward the shooter A1 carries defender B1 into the offensive player A1 who had just released the shot. Defender B1 had returned to floor as well.
The contact is such that is much more than incidental. The contact is caused by the defender B1.
The contact occured at about the same time the ball went into the basket for 3 pts.

I counted 3 pts. & since shooter A1 is no longer an airborne shooter, this was a common foul on B1. No bonus, only team foul number 3... so ball is awarded to team A whose player A1 just nailed the trey...

I haven't even looked in my rules book or case book yet. I'm just curious what everyone else thinks before I do.

Be nice!

Snake~eyes · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 13, 2006, 01:00am

I agree with what you did. Once the player returns to the floor he is no longer a shooter.

TimTaylor · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 13, 2006, 01:02am

You handled it correctly. However, if ball had already passed through the hoop, at which point the ball becomes dead, any subsequent contact is ignored unless it is judged intentional or flagrant.

I had one almost identical a couple weeks ago, only contact was clearly before the ball passed through the rim and it was team foul #8 on B. Score the 3 for A1 & put her at the line for 1+1, both of which she made.

Cager ref 1989 · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 13, 2006, 01:07am

Yep! Not much better than a 5 pt play.

TimTaylor · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 13, 2006, 01:58am

Quote:

Originally posted by Cager ref 1989
Yep! Not much better than a 5 pt play.

Oh it got better! B's assistant coach jumped up and screamed "that's the dumbest call I've ever seen" - my partner whacked him. A also made both FT's for the T (1+1 was shot with the lane cleared). Now it's seven points plus the ball - they inbound and score again for a whopping 9 point play! I've never seen anything like it, and probably never will again.....

RefNVa · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 13, 2006, 02:43am

Several years ago my partner and I whacked a coach twice and sent him to the showers. The technicals were eventually worth 8 points, his team lost by 8, ah there is justice!!

cdaref · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 13, 2006, 04:23am

Wow, you guys beat my story that I thought was good. My partner and I gave 3 consecutive Ts to the same player on a play that wound up being a 7 point play (hit 5 of 6 and scored on the inbounds). I cant believe you guys trumped me with an 8 point play

After a no call he thought he should have gotten A1 (white 15 in actuality) spiked the ball hard and it bounces way over the backboard in height. My partner whacks him. As my partner is moving away (I was going to report), A1 advances on my partner, swinging his arms and absolutley screaming "that is bull$hit" in the middle of the floor. I whack him for that. (if he had just muttered it or said it as he turned away I would have let it pass under the circumstances, but since he advanced into the middle of the court towards my partner and was screaming a profanity I gave him the second). Because the guy seems more mad at my partner than me, I stay tableside and report both Ts, I indicate his disqualification, make sure they go against the foul count, etc. I indicate to the coach I need a replacement. As I am doing that, now that A1 has gone to the bench he kicks a chair at the end of the bench and again screams "that is bull$h*t." I give him a third and I tell the coach it is an indirect on him and he just lost the box for the game. I told him with a "sorry about that but I had no choice" look on my face. Not a peep from the crowd. Not a peep from the coach. Coach only says "he was just frustrated with a no call." I tell him "coach, I know you teach your kids better than that." to which he says "you're right, he was totally out of line." Coach is a really good coach. In fact, the home AD even emailed the commish after I filed my ejection report and said the kid deserved it.

So the visitors hit 5 of the 6 FTs and the score on the inbounds for a total of a 7 point play. Visitors eventually win by 9. It was a 2 point game at the time of the Ts (3rd Q) and it totally changed the complexion of the game. I have gone over it in my head a bunch of times and would do it that way again.

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Anyway, back to your initial situation. If it was at the same time as the basket, I would have called it. Unless of course you can say clearly that the basket went first, then you have to ignore it. Good instincts. That is the kind of stuff that you probably didnt (and wouldnt) generally pregame so when it comes up you have to rely on your guts. Nice work.

Junker · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 13, 2006, 09:15am

I agree that the play described was handled correctly...on to T's changing a game. I had my first ever ejection right before Christmas. V had a player that was talked to about his sportsmanship in th first half. He earned a first T throwing mid way through the 4th quarter by up his hands, walking to the bench to be subbed for during between the first and second free throws. While I'm reporting the T, he continues to complain and yanks his jersey out so I give him his well earned second. Didn't hear a word from coaches or fans. Everyone knew it was coming. Anyway, V was up by 4 when the kid got himself tossed. H comes out and hits 2 of 5 free throws and then they hit a 3 on the subsequent possession. V loses by 3. Hopefully the ejected player learned his lesson. This was a freshman game by the way, luckily I've never had these kinds of problems in a V game.