player control

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

9.2.5 SITUATION B: A1 has the ball out of bounds for a throw-in and is being guarded by B1. Before releasing the ball, A1 loses his/her balance, reaches out and puts his/her hand on B1 (who is inbounds) in an effort to regain his/her balance.

RULING: Throw-in violation by A1. A1 is required to remain out of bounds until releasing the throw-in pass. When A1 touches an inbounds player, he/she has inbound status. However, if the contact on B1 is illegal, a personal foul shall be called. (9-2-10 Note)

My mistake for not reading that thoroughly. But to get back to the original question, I still can't see how a thrower can commit a player-control foul.

[APG]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

My mistake for not reading that thoroughly. But to get back to the original question, I still can't see how a thrower can commit a player-control foul.

Thrower A1 pushes B1 in the chest to create more room for the throw-in.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Thrower A1 pushes B1 in the chest to create more room for the throw-in.

Yep, I'd call the PC foul on this rather than the violation. Same concept as calling the foul when the defender reaches across the plane and fouls the thrower.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Thrower A1 pushes B1 in the chest to create more room for the throw-in.

So this is me becoming the Devil's Advocate: if the thrower and defender are that close that the thrower is able to push the defender, one of two things has happened:

1. The thrower has moved too far forward during the throw-in, which is a violation (I'm basing this on the throw-in taking place at any time other than after a made/awarded field goal or free throw).
2. The defender has moved too close to the thrower, in which case it's a warning or technical foul on the defense.

I can't see it happening in a situation where a team can run the endline - though I guess it could - because the thrower can run away from the defender.

[APG]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

So this is me becoming the Devil's Advocate: if the thrower and defender are that close that the thrower is able to push the defender, one of two things has happened:

1. The thrower has moved too far forward during the throw-in, which is a violation (I'm basing this on the throw-in taking place at any time other than after a made/awarded field goal or free throw).
2. The defender has moved too close to the thrower, in which case it's a warning or technical foul on the defense.

I can't see it happening in a situation where a team can run the endline - though I guess it could - because the thrower can run away from the defender.

It'd be very easy for my situation to occur...the defender can get right up to the throw-in plane, and the thrower can get close enough and still reach out without stepping inbounds. You just never see this play because a thrower's natural inclination when pressured like above is to step back away from the pressure rather than try to create more space.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

So this is me becoming the Devil's Advocate: if the thrower and defender are that close that the thrower is able to push the defender, one of two things has happened:

1. The thrower has moved too far forward during the throw-in, which is a violation (I'm basing this on the throw-in taking place at any time other than after a made/awarded field goal or free throw).
2. The defender has moved too close to the thrower, in which case it's a warning or technical foul on the defense.

False choice. In this case, only one player is prohibited from breaking the plane. And even if he breaks it, we're told to call the foul if contact is the immediate result of the violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not as hard as you might think.

Although as soon as he touches the defender in bounds, he commits a throw in violation. So, the only way I'm calling the foul is if he goes intentional or flagrant.

And in that case it's not a PC foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And in that case it's not a PC foul.

Right, but I'm retracting that statement as of now. I can see calling a run of the mill PC foul if A1 pushes off to clear space (similar to a post player trying to create a shot).

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Right, but I'm retracting that statement as of now. I can see calling a run of the mill PC foul if A1 pushes off to clear space (similar to a post player trying to create a shot).

And I agree that calling the foul rather than the violation is justified by the same reasoning as calling an INT/T on B for contacting the thrower/ball instead of the violation for breaking the plane, though in each case technically the violation happened first.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Thrower A1 pushes B1 in the chest to create more room for the throw-in.

Sounds like an intentional foul to me, not a player control foul.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sounds like an intentional foul to me, not a player control foul.

Different/more severe than guard A2, without the ball, shoving their defender away to pop out and receive a pass? I've never called that intentional.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sounds like an intentional foul to me, not a player control foul.

You can't envision a player pushing an opponent in the chest without it being an intentional foul?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

You can't envision a player pushing an opponent in the chest without it being an intentional foul?

Yes I can. But not when a thrower-in-er pushes the thrower-in-er's defender in the chest. It's not a "basketball play". I'm not going to bet my house on my interpretation, it's just my off the cuff opinion.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes I can. But not when a thrower-in-er pushes the thrower-in-er's defender in the chest. It's not a "basketball play". I'm not going to bet my house on my interpretation, it's just my off the cuff opinion.

Sounds like about 90% of the fouls in most games. A player is in the way of the team/player that wishes to make a play and they use contact to get open and make the pass....that sounds like a basketball play to me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Sounds like about 90% of the fouls in most games.

Fouling from out of bounds? 90%? Really?