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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 30, 2012, 07:27pm
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
It's funny how running backwards is not frowned upon in football, but in basketball it is.

I've been working college football as a deep guy for 6 years now and I've fallen exactly zero times. High school, 7 years and zero falls.

In football, I have receivers spread out over a much wider distance than a basketball court.

While I don't do it in a basketball game, if I had to, I could do it and maintain coverage. So could anyone really.
In football if you fall down you do not have a hard surface to fall onto and likely your head or land on your wrists the same way. I also do not know anyone in football that gets carried off by a stretcher like they do in basketball when they fall on their head either.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 30, 2012, 08:34pm
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Originally Posted by KJUmp View Post
How does he keep up with HSBV players in transition running backwards?
He sprints to about the top of the key when he's lead and then turns and does the run backwards number, I know why not go all the way while looking over your shoulder? I've given up in trying to get him to change. Maybe he use to box!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 12:27am
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
It's funny how running backwards is not frowned upon in football, but in basketball it is.
Hell, running backwards is encouraged in soccer! In fact, it's part of our physical test.

But, there are reasons why it's encouraged in one and not the other. In soccer, if you're 10-20 yards from the sideline, and the ball is coming toward you, you want your eyes on the field while your feet are moving in the necessary direction. In basketball, the space is 15 times smaller to cover, so backtracking just isn't necessary.

More than a few years ago, I volunteered for a Y girls' basketball game, so just to experiment, I thought I'd try backtracking, just to see what the big deal was all about. (I wasn't getting paid, so why not?) The experiment failed; it was one of my worst performances on the court.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:28am
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Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2 View Post
He sprints to about the top of the key when he's lead and then turns and does the run backwards number, I know why not go all the way while looking over your shoulder? I've given up in trying to get him to change. Maybe he use to box!
Our local summer rec league uses HS players interested in becoming officials. It works out well in that they make some pocket money and get a taste of officiating. Certified veterans help train them. We had a student 3 summers ago who insisted on back peddaling despite several attempts to correct and warn him. Unfortunately, he did trip over a player during a 10/11 game, fell backwards and broke BOTH wrists. Both arms in a cast pretty much all summer. We use him as an example now.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:33am
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Originally Posted by Bad Zebra View Post
We use him as an example now.
Perhaps that will be the purpose of Loudwhistle2s buddy.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 12:39pm
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Hell, running backwards is encouraged in soccer! In fact, it's part of our physical test.

But, there are reasons why it's encouraged in one and not the other. In soccer, if you're 10-20 yards from the sideline, and the ball is coming toward you, you want your eyes on the field while your feet are moving in the necessary direction. In basketball, the space is 15 times smaller to cover, so backtracking just isn't necessary.

More than a few years ago, I volunteered for a Y girls' basketball game, so just to experiment, I thought I'd try backtracking, just to see what the big deal was all about. (I wasn't getting paid, so why not?) The experiment failed; it was one of my worst performances on the court.
Being a soccer guy, every once in a while I'll catch myself starting to run backwards since it comes naturally. Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with the space being covered. Frankly, your view running backwards is far superior to your view over your shoulder. Rather, I think it comes down to safety. The hazards to the official, primarily cheerleaders and people sitting in the front row, are too close for safety, which is not the case in football and soccer.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 12:55pm
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Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
.... Frankly, your view running backwards is far superior to your view over your shoulder. Rather, I think it comes down to safety. ...
It may be superior in that you see a larger field of vision which is what you need in soccer and football but it sure as heck doesn't give you a better 'look' at what you should be officiating on a baskeball court.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:00pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
It may be superior in that you see a larger field of vision which is what you need in soccer and football but it sure as heck doesn't give you a better 'look' at what you should be officiating on a baskeball court.
I'm a little mystified here. I can see at best about 4 players while I'm looking over my shoulder while my partner has the ball and the primary defender. That means until I get to the endline and turn around, 4 and as many as 6 players are not being looked at. If I ran backwards, I would be able to cover all of the off-ball players.

So I have to ask, if not the off-ball players, what precisely should I be officiating when the ball isn't in my PCA?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:11pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
It may be superior in that you see a larger field of vision which is what you need in soccer and football but it sure as heck doesn't give you a better 'look' at what you should be officiating on a baskeball court.
With all due respect, this is 100% not true for myself.

Yes, I've backpedalled in a basketball game, but not in years - possibly a decade or more. If it all of a sudden became "ok" in a basketball game, I would switch before the "ok" sentence was finished.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:13pm
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Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
I can see at best about 4 players while I'm looking over my shoulder while my partner has the ball and the primary defender. That means until I get to the endline and turn around, 4 and as many as 6 players are not being looked at. If I ran backwards, I would be able to cover all of the off-ball player
Primary responsibility of the trail official is to referee the on ball defender WHILE seeing as many of the other players as possible.

So many times I see unengaged dribblers bring the ball into the f/c & the trail is locked in on the dribble. It looks like, "if he violates I'm not going to miss it!!" T go find the next matchup! L get to the endline. If you have a C thats a bonus.

BTW, whats wrong the ol' sidestep method in regards to a more open look in transition?
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Last edited by tref; Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 01:15pm.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:20pm
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
Primary responsibility of the trail official is to referee the on ball defender WHILE seeing as many of the other players as possible.

So many times I see unengaged dribblers bring the ball into the f/c & the trail is locked in on the dribble. It looks like, "if he violates I'm not going to miss it!!" T go find the next matchup! L get to the endline. If you have a C thats a bonus.

BTW, whats wrong the ol' sidestep method in regards to a more open look in transition?
Sure, but it's not an issue when there's no pressure. It's when the T has heavy pressure and can't pick up anyone else that you have both uncovered players and an incentive for off-ball fouls.

There's nothing wrong with sidesteping, imo. It's a much better view in transition than over the shoulder and I use it whenever I can.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should run backwards; I'm just saying it's for safety reasons, not officiating reasons we don't.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
I'm a little mystified here. I can see at best about 4 players while I'm looking over my shoulder while my partner has the ball and the primary defender. That means until I get to the endline and turn around, 4 and as many as 6 players are not being looked at. If I ran backwards, I would be able to cover all of the off-ball players.

So I have to ask, if not the off-ball players, what precisely should I be officiating when the ball isn't in my PCA?
You have a partner - he is covering some of the players you are not. You can't possibly see all of the players no matter where you are looking. You have your primary and focus on the key matchups and catch what you can out of your peripheral. But you have to trust that your partner is also covering their primary.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
I'm a little mystified here. I can see at best about 4 players while I'm looking over my shoulder while my partner has the ball and the primary defender. That means until I get to the endline and turn around, 4 and as many as 6 players are not being looked at. If I ran backwards, I would be able to cover all of the off-ball players.

So I have to ask, if not the off-ball players, what precisely should I be officiating when the ball isn't in my PCA?
(Assuming 2-person)

If it is a fast break, the ball IS in your PCA, even if it is above the FT line....until the trail gets to the FC.

If it is not a fast break, you don't have all 8 off ball players , more like 5-6. Not much different than a half court set. There is no way you can cover the 8 players who are off ball, particularly in transition.

If they're trapping in the backcourt with more than 2 defenders, you shouldn't be running down the court anyway so looking over your shoulder is not necessary.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
I'm a little mystified here. I can see at best about 4 players while I'm looking over my shoulder while my partner has the ball and the primary defender. That means until I get to the endline and turn around, 4 and as many as 6 players are not being looked at. If I ran backwards, I would be able to cover all of the off-ball players.
That's part of the reason I decided to experiment for that Y game. If I can see more in one sport, why can't I see more in another?

It still threw me off a bit for that game, and I'm sure I didn't look very solid backpedaling 40-50 feet. I figured, if you're going to try stuff like that, do it in a game that just doesn't matter. Aside from two or three back-steps here and there, I haven't done it since as the T or in transition.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:30pm
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
That's part of the reason I decided to experiment for that Y game. If I can see more in one sport, why can't I see more in another?

It still threw me off a bit for that game, and I'm sure I didn't look very solid backpedaling 40-50 feet. I figured, if you're going to try stuff like that, do it in a game that just doesn't matter. Aside from two or three back-steps here and there, I haven't done it since as the T or in transition.
I agree that it's not the right mechanic for basketball, but it has nothing to do with the view it gives.
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