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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:05am
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Originally Posted by jkumpire View Post
Reading the thread responses leads me to asking this question: If you think it's a flop would you consider calling the defender for a Technical Foul?
For a genuine flop, I'd consider it. For what many people call a flop — slight contact inducing a histrionic fall and yell — no.

Genuine flops are exceedingly rare, in my experience.
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:28am
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
For a genuine flop, I'd consider it. For what many people call a flop — slight contact inducing a histrionic fall and yell — no.

Genuine flops are exceedingly rare, in my experience.
How do you differentiate between a "genuine flop" and what you describe above? Would a genuine flop be no contact as opposed to slight contact?
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:01pm
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Originally Posted by gdudik View Post
How do you differentiate between a "genuine flop" and what you describe above? Would a genuine flop be no contact as opposed to slight contact?
Experience. Anticipating and bracing for contact (by leaning backwards to soften the blow) are allowed. Often, though, those actions minimize contact enough to make it incidental.

Faking being fouled is different, and needs to be obvious.
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:35pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Experience. Anticipating and bracing for contact (by leaning backwards to soften the blow) are allowed. Often, though, those actions minimize contact enough to make it incidental.

Faking being fouled is different, and needs to be obvious.
Fair enough.
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:31pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Experience. Anticipating and bracing for contact (by leaning backwards to soften the blow) are allowed. Often, though, those actions minimize contact enough to make it incidental.

Faking being fouled is different, and needs to be obvious.
Agreed in full.

Now, In our state a common mantra of the State supervisors is "there has to be a whistle EVERY time bodies hit the floor". What is the right thing to do when the B1 anticipates contact, A1 pulls up and shoots staying within his verticality but B1 being barely touched, falls to the floor? Compounded by A1 missing the shot and you now have rebounding action with a player on the floor endangering himself and others?
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2012, 03:04pm
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Originally Posted by ref2coach View Post
Agreed in full.

Now, In our state a common mantra of the State supervisors is "there has to be a whistle EVERY time bodies hit the floor". What is the right thing to do when the B1 anticipates contact, A1 pulls up and shoots staying within his verticality but B1 being barely touched, falls to the floor? Compounded by A1 missing the shot and you now have rebounding action with a player on the floor endangering himself and others?
I hate that mantra. My goal is to be able to explain every time someone hits the floor. Shooter tries to splits defenders and trips, I'm not blowing my whistle.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2012, 03:56pm
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Originally Posted by ref2coach View Post
Agreed in full.

Now, In our state a common mantra of the State supervisors is "there has to be a whistle EVERY time bodies hit the floor". What is the right thing to do when the B1 anticipates contact, A1 pulls up and shoots staying within his verticality but B1 being barely touched, falls to the floor? Compounded by A1 missing the shot and you now have rebounding action with a player on the floor endangering himself and others?
Your state supervisors are idiots.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2012, 09:11pm
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Your state supervisors are idiots.

Rich:

I like your thinking.

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Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:33pm
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Originally Posted by ref2coach View Post
Agreed in full.

Now, In our state a common mantra of the State supervisors is "there has to be a whistle EVERY time bodies hit the floor". What is the right thing to do when the B1 anticipates contact, A1 pulls up and shoots staying within his verticality but B1 being barely touched, falls to the floor? Compounded by A1 missing the shot and you now have rebounding action with a player on the floor endangering himself and others?
Cow patties.

What you should know is, when any player hit the floor, how they got there.
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Old Wed Feb 01, 2012, 10:57am
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Originally Posted by ref2coach View Post
Agreed in full.

Now, In our state a common mantra of the State supervisors is "there has to be a whistle EVERY time bodies hit the floor". What is the right thing to do when the B1 anticipates contact, A1 pulls up and shoots staying within his verticality but B1 being barely touched, falls to the floor? Compounded by A1 missing the shot and you now have rebounding action with a player on the floor endangering himself and others?
It's been my experience the player that flops usually penalizes himself by being unable to compete for a rebound or remain useful in the play. There have been occasions in which the player on the floor gets tangled up in the feet of an opposing player either with or without the ball and puts the opposing player at a clear disadvantage. In those cases I'll whistle the player on the ground for a common foul, with my rational being they can't have a legal guarding or rebounding position while on the floor, and it's their own damn fault for being there.
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Old Wed Feb 01, 2012, 11:13am
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Originally Posted by Duffman View Post
It's been my experience the player that flops usually penalizes himself by being unable to compete for a rebound or remain useful in the play. There have been occasions in which the player on the floor gets tangled up in the feet of an opposing player either with or without the ball and puts the opposing player at a clear disadvantage. In those cases I'll whistle the player on the ground for a common foul, with my rational being they can't have a legal guarding or rebounding position while on the floor, and it's their own damn fault for being there.
If he got there legally, by anticipating/bracing for contact and falling in the process, and he's not moving (and thus does not require LGP) when the feet get tangled; what has he done wrong to warrant a foul?
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Old Wed Feb 01, 2012, 11:20am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
If he got there legally, by anticipating/bracing for contact and falling in the process, and he's not moving (and thus does not require LGP) when the feet get tangled; what has he done wrong to warrant a foul?
Nothing, and that's a completely different situation than what we are talking about. We are talking about players that flop trying to draw a whistle.

If a player anticipates and braces for impact and goes to the floor legitimately as a result of the contact we have a charge, no?

From the angle we had on that video the defensive player clearly went down on his own. Had he gotten tangled up with the offensive player while still in possession of the ball, a cutting player after a pass, or a rebounder after a try I would not have hesitated in calling a personal foul on him while on the ground.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2012, 02:55pm
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
For a genuine flop, I'd consider it. For what many people call a flop — slight contact inducing a histrionic fall and yell — no.

Genuine flops are exceedingly rare, in my experience.
I haven't called one..........yet.
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