Backcourt Violation Play

[APG]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Technically not true anymore. NFHS rule now requires player control in front court. NCAA doesn't. (I tripped on that earlier this season.)

Wording my be different but in application, the rules are the exact same.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Wording my be different but in application, the rules are the exact same.

I don't think so. A1 in backcourt pass into front court that is deflected off or by an A front court player back into back court and first touched there by A is not a BC violation in NFHS because of this editorial change. (Think A player that doesn't catch the pass or isn't expecting it near the division line.)

[APG]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I don't think so. A1 in backcourt pass into front court that is deflected off or by an A front court player back into back court and first touched there by A is not a BC violation in NFHS because of this editorial change. (Think A player that doesn't catch the pass or isn't expecting it near the division line.)

That's still a backcourt violation under NFHS rules. The player control portion that was added to the rule applies to when coming out of a throw-in.

[APG]

*9.9.1 SITUATION C: A1 is dribbling in his/her backcourt and throws a pass to the frontcourt. While standing in A’s frontcourt: (a) A2 or (b) B3 touches the ball and deflects it back to A’s backcourt. A2 recovers in the backcourt.

RULING: In (a), it is a violation. The ball was in control of A1 and Team A, and a player from A was the last to touch the ball in frontcourt and a player of A was the first to touch it after it returned to the back court. In (b), legal play. A Team A player was not the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt. Team A is entitled to a new 10-second count.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

*9.9.1 SITUATION C: A1 is dribbling in his/her backcourt and throws a pass to the frontcourt. While standing in A’s frontcourt: (a) A2 or (b) B3 touches the ball and deflects it back to A’s backcourt. A2 recovers in the backcourt.

RULING: In (a), it is a violation. The ball was in control of A1 and Team A, and a player from A was the last to touch the ball in frontcourt and a player of A was the first to touch it after it returned to the back court. In (b), legal play. A Team A player was not the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt. Team A is entitled to a new 10-second count.

Weird. In my mind, this conflicts with the addition of "player" into 9-9-1.

[APG]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Weird. In my mind, this conflicts with the addition of "player" into 9-9-1.

That's because the folks with NFHS worded the rule poorly. All you need to know that adding team control doesn't change how we call plays. We call everything the exact same way as we had before...the only exception is if the throw-in team commits a foul, no free throws are awarded.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Weird. In my mind, this conflicts with the addition of "player" into 9-9-1.

Of course it does. But, as has been explained here (and elsewhere) approximately 87 times, it doesn't mean what it says. The play is a BC violation.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Not true. Backcourt rules changed quite a bit, causing at least one major discrepancy.

How so? What about a backcourt violation changed?

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

There was an official NFHS powerpoint that mentioned that team control didn't affect anything except fouls by the throw-in team...and that we'd called 3 seconds, backcourt violations and counts the same...besides that and the official interpretations, NFHS hasn't acknowledged anything in regard to the wording of the rule.

This is what I was talking about.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

That's still a backcourt violation under NFHS rules. The player control portion that was added to the rule applies to when coming out of a throw-in.

?
9-9-1 doesn't mention throw-ins.

Originally Posted by NFHS

9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball int he frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

?
9-9-1 doesn't mention throw-ins.

Easy fix to the poor wording:

9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

(Sorry, but don't know how to get the "strike-through" font.)

TIP: around the text, put < STRIKE> and < /STRIKE> (minus the spaces inside the braces that I put in to make it show)

to get and

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

TIP: around the text, put < STRIKE> and < /STRIKE> (minus the spaces inside the braces that I put in to make it show)

to get and

< s > < /s > Also works

Snaqs is an instigator agitator.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Easy fix to the poor wording:

9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

And as I've mentioned in other posts the same wording needs to be added to the 10-second backcourt rule concerning when the count should start after a throw-in.

Meaning if a throw-in is tipped/muffed in/into the backcourt the 10-second count doesn't start until player control is established.

Unless of course the 10-second count should start immediately when the ball gains backcourt status after a throw-in. No one has ever really clearly answered to me what the rulemakers intent is concerning starting the 10-second count after a throw-in. Even asked Al Battista once in camp and he kinded hemmed and hawwed an answer and couldn't give me a clear rules reference, a definite rarity for him.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And as I've mentioned in other posts the same wording needs to be added to the 10-second backcourt rule concerning when the count should start after a throw-in.

Meaning if a throw-in is tipped/muffed in/into the backcourt the 10-second count doesn't start until player control is established.

Unless of course the 10-second count should start immediately when the ball gains backcourt status after a throw-in. No one has ever really clearly answered to me what the rulemakers intent is concerning starting the 10-second count after a throw-in. Even asked Al Battista once in camp and he kinded hemmed and hawwed an answer and couldn't give me a clear rules reference, a definite rarity for him.

What they want is clear. The only change desired from last year's rules is the bonus for fouls committed by the throwing-in team during the throw-in. Don't start the count until player control is first established in the backcourt.

[tref]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Technically not true anymore. NFHS rule now requires player control in front court for plays where ball touches a player in front court and returns too backcourt. NCAA doesn't. (I tripped on that earlier this season.)

So which one is it?

4-4-4
A ball which touches a player or an official is the same as the ball touching the floor at that individual's location.

9-9-1
A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

I could've sworn that they said adding team control on throw-ins was not meant to change any other aspects of the game except not awarding FTs when the offensive team fouls.

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I don't think so. A1 in backcourt pass into front court that is deflected off or by an A front court player back into back court and first touched there by A is not a BC violation in NFHS because of this editorial change. (Think A player that doesn't catch the pass or isn't expecting it near the division line.)

If thats not a violation, it will definitely be a technical foul as that is the expected call.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the "player & team control" part is in regards to a throw-in from OOB directly into the frontcourt.