Backcourt Violation Play

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

Thank you APG!
I saw this and thought they nailed it. It was a goofy play, and I remembered this was a type of play that was discussed during the rule change to team control during a throw in (NFHS).
Ps: Go Blue!

This doesn't have anything to do with team control on a throw-in. That only applies to the throwing team fouling during a throw-in. Backcourt rules have not changed. This would have been a BC violation last year too.

[fiasco]

I watched that game. You could read lips and kind of make out the conversation between Earl Walton and Tom Izzo. Seems like Izzo was arguing that his player didn't have control and Earl is trying to explain to him that the second he dribbled the ball, even if it was off his foot, he established control. I think Earl finally got through to him. Great call in a pressure situation.

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by zm1283

This doesn't have anything to do with team control on a throw-in. That only applies to the throwing team fouling during a throw-in. Backcourt rules have not changed. This would have been a BC violation last year too.

I understand that. I guess a no call on a non controlled ball would have been better to explain that.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Notice the talking heads never even mention the dribble.

I've done a little announcing over the years. Before I started wearing stripes, I sure would have liked to know the full boat of requirements for backcourt. Simply put, someone needs to step up and teach these guys, especially at the national level. The more announcers that get it right, the fewer fans there will be to get it wrong.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Backcourt rules have not changed.

Not true. Backcourt rules changed quite a bit, causing at least one major discrepancy.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Yes, both rule sets are the same in regards to backcourt violations.

Technically not true anymore. NFHS rule now requires player control in front court for plays where ball touches a player in front court and returns too backcourt. NCAA doesn't. (I tripped on that earlier this season.)

[APG]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Technically not true anymore. NFHS rule now requires player control in front court. NCAA doesn't. (I tripped on that earlier this season.)

Wording my be different but in application, the rules are the exact same.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Wording my be different but in application, the rules are the exact same.

I don't think so. A1 in backcourt pass into front court that is deflected off or by an A front court player back into back court and first touched there by A is not a BC violation in NFHS because of this editorial change. (Think A player that doesn't catch the pass or isn't expecting it near the division line.)

[APG]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I don't think so. A1 in backcourt pass into front court that is deflected off or by an A front court player back into back court and first touched there by A is not a BC violation in NFHS because of this editorial change. (Think A player that doesn't catch the pass or isn't expecting it near the division line.)

That's still a backcourt violation under NFHS rules. The player control portion that was added to the rule applies to when coming out of a throw-in.

[APG]

*9.9.1 SITUATION C: A1 is dribbling in his/her backcourt and throws a pass to the frontcourt. While standing in A’s frontcourt: (a) A2 or (b) B3 touches the ball and deflects it back to A’s backcourt. A2 recovers in the backcourt.

RULING: In (a), it is a violation. The ball was in control of A1 and Team A, and a player from A was the last to touch the ball in frontcourt and a player of A was the first to touch it after it returned to the back court. In (b), legal play. A Team A player was not the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt. Team A is entitled to a new 10-second count.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

That's still a backcourt violation under NFHS rules. The player control portion that was added to the rule applies to when coming out of a throw-in.

?
9-9-1 doesn't mention throw-ins.

Originally Posted by NFHS

9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball int he frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

[tref]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Technically not true anymore. NFHS rule now requires player control in front court for plays where ball touches a player in front court and returns too backcourt. NCAA doesn't. (I tripped on that earlier this season.)

So which one is it?

4-4-4
A ball which touches a player or an official is the same as the ball touching the floor at that individual's location.

9-9-1
A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in player and team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

I could've sworn that they said adding team control on throw-ins was not meant to change any other aspects of the game except not awarding FTs when the offensive team fouls.

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I don't think so. A1 in backcourt pass into front court that is deflected off or by an A front court player back into back court and first touched there by A is not a BC violation in NFHS because of this editorial change. (Think A player that doesn't catch the pass or isn't expecting it near the division line.)

If thats not a violation, it will definitely be a technical foul as that is the expected call.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the "player & team control" part is in regards to a throw-in from OOB directly into the frontcourt.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

*9.9.1 SITUATION C: A1 is dribbling in his/her backcourt and throws a pass to the frontcourt. While standing in A’s frontcourt: (a) A2 or (b) B3 touches the ball and deflects it back to A’s backcourt. A2 recovers in the backcourt.

RULING: In (a), it is a violation. The ball was in control of A1 and Team A, and a player from A was the last to touch the ball in frontcourt and a player of A was the first to touch it after it returned to the back court. In (b), legal play. A Team A player was not the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt. Team A is entitled to a new 10-second count.

Weird. In my mind, this conflicts with the addition of "player" into 9-9-1.

[APG]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Weird. In my mind, this conflicts with the addition of "player" into 9-9-1.

That's because the folks with NFHS worded the rule poorly. All you need to know that adding team control doesn't change how we call plays. We call everything the exact same way as we had before...the only exception is if the throw-in team commits a foul, no free throws are awarded.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by tref

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the "player & team control" part is in regards to a throw-in from OOB directly into the frontcourt.

That's what APG's saying, and what is probably, I guess, intended here, but the written rule contradicts the case 9.9.1.c. 9-9-1 does not mention throw-ins, so by my logic, it should apply to all backcourt situations - not just throw-ins.