Dunk in pregame

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A kid on the Varsity team is no more affiliated with the JV team than a parent sitting in the stands wearing the school colors.
Sorry, but you are totally wrong to penalize the team competing for an action done by someone not part of the team. You don't get to decide if he is part of the team, the team/school decides if he is part of the team.

Like Camron said, I don't decide anything. And - again - if you read 4-34, it says quite clearly "including, but not limited to..." So this is covered by the rule. The Coach allowed them out there, they are affiliated with the team, they became bench personnel.

It strikes me as quite odd that someone who ranted about ejecting a parent who comes on the floor because their son/daughter is lying there injured will NOT call a T in a situation like this.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Like Camron said, I don't decide anything. And - again - if you read 4-34, it says quite clearly "including, but not limited to..." So this is covered by the rule. The Coach allowed them out there, they are affiliated with the team, they became bench personnel.

It strikes me as quite odd that someone who ranted about ejecting a parent who comes on the floor because their son/daughter is lying there injured will NOT call a T in a situation like this.

I keep wondering if he would ignore other unsporting behavior from the interloper.

[Nevadaref]

My stance has been consistent--removal of the person from the floor.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

My stance has been consistent--removal of the person from the floor.

If someone in authority, athletic director, site director, coach, table crew, tells me that the dunker is not an actual team member, or bench personnel, then I agree. And if that authority figure lies to me, then it's on their conscience. I'm not going to challenge their moral, and ethical, values there on the court.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If someone in authority, athletic director, site director, coach, table crew, tells me that the dunker is not an actual team member, or bench personnel, then I agree. And if that authority figure lies to me, then it's on their conscience. I'm not going to challenge their moral, and ethical, values there on the court.

The overwhelming point here is what they tell you doesn't matter. Either his presence and his actions prove he is affiliated with the team, or they don't.

Coaches have no conscience in what they tell you.

"He didn't foul!" "He didn't travel!" etc.

[Adam]

From our state organization (CHSAA):

Varsity Dunking in Junior Varsity Halftimes
Please remind your varsity teams that it is a rules violation for varsity players to dunk during halftime warm-ups and/or in the shoot around of junior varsity games. Officials have noted there is an increase over previous years of limited oversight by coaches and/or game administration. The rule is in place for two important reasons: 1) the safety of the participants, and 2) the welfare of the basket and rim. Players can get hurt and baskets can become unplayable, so please reinforce this with coaches and players alike.

Somewhat vague, but definitely justification for calling the T in the situation we're discussing here.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

From our state organization (CHSAA):

Varsity Dunking in Junior Varsity Halftimes

Please remind your varsity teams that it is a rules violation for varsity players to dunk during halftime warm-ups and/or in the shoot around of junior varsity games. Officials have noted there is an increase over previous years of limited oversight by coaches and/or game administration. The rule is in place for two important reasons: 1) the safety of the participants, and 2) the welfare of the basket and rim. Players can get hurt and baskets can become unplayable, so please reinforce this with coaches and players alike.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. posted a similar statement from the Ohio HSAA.

Statements like these make it real easy to charge a technical foul for pregame dunking by a person who may not be on the team roster. Now do you also add the name to the book, to record the foul, and charge a technical foul for that?

[mi_ball]

As a fan/parent of a high school player, I'd be interested in hearing the definition of a dunk. Does the player have to touch the rim? Is it simply the act of throwing the ball down with force from above the rim? My son was warned during warmups for gently flipping the ball downward without touching the rim. I thought the spirit of the rule was to avoid damaging rims and "showing up" your opponents. No one has a problem if the ball is "dropped" into the basket from well above the rim. The distinction seems somewhat arbitrary to me.

For what it is worth, I found this message board last April and I have enjoyed learning more about the rules of the game. It has helped me immensely when watching the games.

I know our team has a manditory parent meeting each year. A 10 minute presentation about the "Myths" I have been reading lately on this board would really help reduce the "chatter" I hear at most games

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mi_ball

Is it simply the act of throwing the ball down with force from above the rim?

4-16: Dunking or stuffing is the driving, forcing, pushing or attempting to force a ball
through the basket with the hand(s).

A "flip downward" sounds like a push. A ball "dropped" into the basket doesn't sound like a push, it sounds like gravity is doing all the work.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mi_ball

As a fan/parent of a high school player, I'd be interested in hearing the definition of a dunk. ... The distinction seems somewhat arbitrary to me.

Arbitrary as it may seem, it is very easy for a player to avoid the situation all together. So many like to push it all the way to the edge, seeing how close they can get without the officials doing anything. If they want to guarantee that will not get called for it, they can stick to layups....don't give the referee a decision to make.

[Adam]

To answer the question, no, the definition of a dunk does not mention the rim.

[mi_ball]

Thanks. I don't want to give the impression that I think they should dunk in warm ups or even push the envelope. This happened last year when he was a freshman and I was curious more than anything. I realize that as officials you deal with over zealous parents on a regular basis but I would hope you are not so jaded that it is your first thought when someone asks a simple question.

I know that you know there are a lot of good kids out there. My son's varsity team had the highest grade point average in the state last year and I am a lot more proud of that than I am my son's ability (and height) that allows him to dunk a basketball.