Dunk in pregame

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A technical foul is definitely WRONG in this situation.
The rule is clear and states that the act must be committed by "bench personnel, including the head coach." (10-4)

Simply have the person removed from the court and continue with the pre-game warm-up.

Except he is bench personnel. Bench personnel include "all individuals who are . . . affiliated with a team." 4-34-2

Anyone being permitted by the team to participate in the warm-up is clearly affiliated with the team.

Considering the practice of having players play at both levels is not exactly rare, I'm not sure how you get around the T by rule as he very well could be a JV player as well.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Except he is bench personnel. Bench personnel include "all individuals who are . . . affiliated with a team." 4-34-2

Affiliated with the school? Certainly. With the TEAM? Not necessarily. A varsity player is on a different team than the JV team (swingers notwithstanding). If he's not in the book, and he's not an assistant coach, trainer, or manager, he's really just a fan.

Again, this is a player technical foul, not a team one. You must have someone to whack, and if he's not involved in that game, the only reason for a team T would be to stretch 2-8-1.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Wait, what if it's a JV girls' game?

I'd give the ball back to her and have her do it again!!!

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by Jmcmu66

There was a bjv game in our area with a interesting warmup. As the home team was warming up, a varsity member got in the line and dunked. The officials T'd the home team, gave them a team foul, and coach had to sit. What do you think?

I think that this is a bad rule. First what's wrong with dunking in warm ups? They can dunk during the game and as long as they don't hang onto the rim, the risk of damaging the rim is low. Secondly, why should the coach have to sit after getting a technical? Never understood the logic there?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Affiliated with the school? Certainly. With the TEAM? Not necessarily. A varsity player is on a different team than the JV team (swingers notwithstanding). If he's not in the book, and he's not an assistant coach, trainer, or manager, he's really just a fan.

If he's out shooting layups with them, he's affiliated. What if he sits on the bench with them and tells you that you suck? You gonna allow that?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What if he sits on the bench with them....

THEN he's bench personnel.

Okay then. It's halftime of the JV game. Both JV teams go into their respective locker rooms, and the varisty teams take the court to shoot around. One dunks. Whack?

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Jay R

I think that this is a bad rule. First what's wrong with dunking in warm ups? They can dunk during the game and as long as they don't hang onto the rim, the risk of damaging the rim is low. Secondly, why should the coach have to sit after getting a technical? Never understood the logic there?

The rule against dunking in warmups is mainly because of potential injuries from what I've been told. That and possible damage to equipment, such as the baskets.

The coach being seatbelted is a high school thing and is done to discourage unsporting behavior. If a coach knows he will have to sit the rest of a game, he is more likely to keep his team and himself under control. It obviously is not always a deterrent, but it helps.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

THEN he's bench personnel.

Okay then. It's halftime of the JV game. Both JV teams go into their respective locker rooms, and the varisty teams take the court to shoot around. One dunks. Whack?

No, because he's not out their participating in a team activity. When a team allows an individual to join their warm up, he becomes affiliated with their team. If team is in the locker room, unless he had been sitting on the bench during the first half, I don't see an affiliation there.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

When a team allows an individual to join their warm up, he becomes affiliated with their team.

Okay, here's the crux, and it's probably a Roman thing.

Last month, we received instruction that, when a team is warming up, ONLY team members can be on the floor. If they're going to the locker room, it's a different story, but once they come out, it's only about the team. Everyone else is to be sent off.

So, if they're not part of the team, then I can't extend bench personnel to them. It's either 2-8-1 or nothing (most likely the latter), as far as I can see.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, here's the crux, and it's probably a Roman thing.

Last month, we received instruction that, when a team is warming up, ONLY team members can be on the floor. If they're going to the locker room, it's a different story, but once they come out, it's only about the team. Everyone else is to be sent off.

So, if they're not part of the team, then I can't extend bench personnel to them. It's either 2-8-1 or nothing (most likely the latter), as far as I can see.

This does indeed sound like a local thing. So you are not to permit coaches or managers to be on the floor during warm ups? I occasionally have a coach go onto the floor and not uncommonly have student managers assisting warm ups.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by bainsey

THEN he's bench personnel.

Okay then. It's halftime of the JV game. Both JV teams go into their respective locker rooms, and the varisty teams take the court to shoot around. One dunks. Whack?

According to the state of Colorado's CHSAA, yes, unfortunately.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

So you are not to permit coaches or managers to be on the floor during warm ups?

My mistake. I meant bench personnel, not team members.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

My mistake. I meant bench personnel, not team members.

Fair enough. I think this though does become a bit of a circular definition as anyone the team permits on the court during warm ups is therefore affiliated with the team and thus bench personnel.

In practice, if it's obvious that he's a non-dressed varsity player and the coach is telling me he shouldn't have been out there, I'm not going to assess the T.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

According to the state of Colorado's CHSAA, yes, unfortunately.

Really? From Tom?

[Eastshire]

Heh, just reading the new OHSAA Rebounder's Report which is the newsletter put out by the Ohio Assistant Commissioner for Basketball Jerry Snodgrass.

Varsity Players ‘warming up’ with JV Players at Pre-Game & Halftime? Consider this….
It happens everywhere more and more. Varsity players get out and warm-up with JV players. But consider this; when they do so, there is no distinguishing between a JV player and a varsity player. If the officials are on the floor, they have jurisdiction. So when that Varsity player wants to demonstrate his jumping ability and dunk….it is a “T” just like any other time. Might ‘seem’ farfetched at first, but nearly EVERY coach agrees the integrity of the game needs to be protected. It starts with simple enforcement of regular adopted game rules

Emphasis in the original.