Should I have called a Tech?

[blueprint]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

BTW...I might have whacked him for this.

Kids don't get to "whine and moan" at me....and if this is usual for you, you are either relatively new (I would guess somebody in their 20's) and/or need to get some advice from some veterans in your area in how to handle these situations.

But...don't get me wrong...thanks for posting this kind of stuff, it gets us all thinking about what we need to do in certain situations.

Ha, you are right on all fronts. I am new, and I am 28. I will know how to handle this NEXT time around....

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by blueprint

Ha, you are right on all fronts. I am new, and I am 28. I will know how to handle this NEXT time around....

Good for you...that's the spirit!

[APG]

Originally Posted by blueprint

THis was the approach I ended up taking....I called him for EVERYTHING.

I'd be careful with this line of thinking...especially in today's age where everything is a camera phone away from being put on the internet. I would not go about trying to call a player for everything when I didn't take care of business...for whatever reason. Now if the player comes close to unsporting conduct, then go ahead and whack him as he's already had his one "freebie."

Originally Posted by Toren

I would have walked him to his coach and said, "this player just earned a technical, you want to handle him?" Coach says, "yes, I will handle him"..."thanks coach" tweet, technical foul.

If the coach says "No, he's alright", "Thanks coach" tweet, flagrant.

Officials and high school players are not equal. We are adults, I don't feel we need to take crap from kids. If he wants to act like an idiot, his coach can talk to him, either way he's sitting on that bench.

I got to say I don't like this line of thinking. If you think the player earned a garden variety technical foul, you should just go ahead and assess it. If you think it's flagrant, then assess that and tell the coach the player is done for the game. I'm not going to base my decision based on how the coach decides to handle his player. That to me is changing how one calls a game based on not approving of a coach's tactics/judgement. That to me is no different than deciding to call more fouls on a pressing team up by 40 because one does not approve of a coach not calling off the dogs.

[fiasco]

I'm with Toren. Winding up and throwing a basketball from that short a distance at an official's head is intent to harm. I've had a ball thrown with a chest pass from that distance with not much oomph on it, and called a regular T.

But if a kid is winding up and throwing a fastball at my head, there's no way I'm letting him stay in the game. Buh-bye.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

That to me is no different than deciding to call more fouls on a pressing team up by 40 because one does not approve of a coach not calling off the dogs.

...you mean I've been screwing this up all this time?...whoops!

[Toren]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I got to say I don't like this line of thinking. If you think the player earned a garden variety technical foul, you should just go ahead and assess it. If you think it's flagrant, then assess that and tell the coach the player is done for the game. I'm not going to base my decision based on how the coach decides to handle his player. That to me is changing how one calls a game based on not approving of a coach's tactics/judgement. That to me is no different than deciding to call more fouls on a pressing team up by 40 because one does not approve of a coach not calling off the dogs.

I hear you, but my thought process is, he's a kid and needs coaching about this situation. So, if the coach steps up and says I will take responsibility and handle this, okay coach thanks, technical. If the coach doesn't then the player still is going to sit next to that coach and the coach will know he had opportunity and didn't take advantage.

It's not necessarily a black/white open/closed case. Someone may view this play and say flagrant right away, some might say technical, some might say nothing. But I'm going at least technical and possibly flagrant. I'm going to leave myself an out if the coach is cooperative. That could also build repoir for future games.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Toren

I hear you, but my thought process is, he's a kid and needs coaching about this situation. So, if the coach steps up and says I will take responsibility and handle this, okay coach thanks, technical. If the coach doesn't then the player still is going to sit next to that coach and the coach will know he had opportunity and didn't take advantage.

It's not necessarily a black/white open/closed case. Someone may view this play and say flagrant right away, some might say technical, some might say nothing. But I'm going at least technical and possibly flagrant. I'm going to leave myself an out if the coach is cooperative. That could also build repoir for future games.

I don't think anyone is debating whether it's a technical foul...and most won't debate if an official decided to DQ the player for the act...especially if the proximity of the official and the hard throw were close.

IMO, if you're about the kid getting coaching about the situation, he can get coaching in either scenario. If a player commits a flagrant act, I'm not going to allow his coach to in essence "buy" his player out of a DQ. For all we know, the coach could say he'd "take care of it," have a little talk with the player, and send the player right back out five minutes again. You're not going to retroactively assess a flagrant T at this point are you?

[blueprint]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I'm with Toren. Winding up and throwing a basketball from that short a distance at an official's head is intent to harm. I've had a ball thrown with a chest pass from that distance with not much oomph on it, and called a regular T.

But if a kid is winding up and throwing a fastball at my head, there's no way I'm letting him stay in the game. Buh-bye.

He didn't throw it at my head, but he threw an over the top, one handed pitch right in my chest. It was a laser. you could feel the intent behind the throw. I went up to him at half time and told him "you know you got away with one there, but dont ever throw the ball at me like that again."

After the game he came a shook my hand. Even that felt phony though.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

IMO, if you're about the kid getting coaching about the situation, he can get coaching in either scenario. If a player commits a flagrant act, I'm not going to allow his coach to in essence "buy" his player out of a DQ. For all we know, the coach could say he'd "take care of it," have a little talk with the player, and send the player right back out five minutes again. You're not going to retroactively assess a flagrant T at this point are you?

Of course not.

I'm walking up to the coach telling him this player is assessed a technical and if he wants to handle him. I'm not telling him, coach if you handle him I will only give him a T. Now whether he handles it or not at that point isn't my concern really. But I would give the coach the benefit of the doubt until he proved me wrong.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Toren

Of course not.

I'm walking up to the coach telling him this player is assessed a technical and if he wants to handle him. I'm not telling him, coach if you handle him I will only give him a T. Now whether he handles it or not at that point isn't my concern really. But I would give the coach the benefit of the doubt until he proved me wrong.

If I were you, I'd change your mindset. Assess the penalty the act deserves and let the coach deal with it however he wants to.

I'm more than happy if a coach tells me he'll take care of a player if the player's merely pushing the envelope and if the coach is proactive about it, but not when the player fires a basketball at me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Toren

Of course not.

I'm walking up to the coach telling him this player is assessed a technical and if he wants to handle him. I'm not telling him, coach if you handle him I will only give him a T. Now whether he handles it or not at that point isn't my concern really. But I would give the coach the benefit of the doubt until he proved me wrong.

I think that way of thinking has all kinds of problems associated with it. Again you should make a call based on the actions and your judgment alone. Talking to the coach should not change or upgrade a foul you called at the time. And that way of thinking gives the coach another opportunity to say you were bias or that you were out to get him/her in the right situation.

Peace

[Toren]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If I were you, I'd change your mindset. Assess the penalty the act deserves and let the coach deal with it however he wants to.

I'm more than happy if a coach tells me he'll take care of a player if the player's merely pushing the envelope and if the coach is proactive about it, but not when the player fires a basketball at me.

Fair enough.

[gdudik]

Originally Posted by blueprint

Last weekend I was officiating some 11th/12th grade CYO. I called a travel on a kid, and he did the usual whine and moan, but then, he beamed the ball at me. Like a hard baseball throw. We were probably 8-10 feet apart. I was in sheer shock, and by the time I could register what happened, it was too late. Should I have called a tech? How long is too long to wait to call a tech on a player?

Slightly OT, but where do you ref CYO? I work for CYO Portland, and I haven't seen anybody else on here mention CYO before.

[blueprint]

Originally Posted by gdudik

Slightly OT, but where do you ref CYO? I work for CYO Portland, and I haven't seen anybody else on here mention CYO before.

Im on the east coast, MD, VA, DC.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Toren

The actions alone deem it a flagrant but if the coach decides to handle it, I would probably just rule it a technical.

That might be fine -- but you can't ask the coach and then base your actions on his answer.

Either (a) T, or (b) get ready to T but stop if the coach says ""I'll take care of it -- Jimmy get your *** on the bench" before you can blow the whistle, or (c) decide not to T and ask the coach for his help in controlling the player.

Or, (d) step out of the way of the ball and make the kid chase it down for you.