Should I have called a Tech?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Toren

The actions alone deem it a flagrant but if the coach decides to handle it, I would probably just rule it a technical.

This is not a democracy. You are judge, jury, and executioner. The coach plays no part in this.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Toren

I would have walked him to his coach and said, "this player just earned a technical, you want to handle him?" Coach says, "yes, I will handle him"..."thanks coach" tweet, technical foul.

If the coach says "No, he's alright", "Thanks coach" tweet, flagrant.

Officials and high school players are not equal. We are adults, I don't feel we need to take crap from kids. If he wants to act like an idiot, his coach can talk to him, either way he's sitting on that bench.

Please no one who reads this forum think that this is an appropriate action. Either penalize on the spot or not. But for the love of christ don't walk over to the coach and ask him this stupid question AND THEN T.

Because then you will most likely have to T the coach up as well. Plus this whole mechanic described is just stupid.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by deecee

Please no one who reads this forum think that this is an appropriate action. Either penalize on the spot or not. But for the love of christ don't walk over to the coach and ask him this stupid question AND THEN T.

Because then you will most likely have to T the coach up as well. Plus this whole mechanic described is just stupid.

Why is it "stupid"?

You gotta report your Technical to the table regardless, so what's the difference if you have a conversation first?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Toren

Why is it "stupid"?

You gotta report your Technical to the table regardless, so what's the difference if you have a conversation first?

"This player just earned a Technical, do you want to handle him?" - What's the point of the dog and pony show of whistle and either T or F depending on the answer?

If you want to do this go ahead. I think it's a stupid mechanic.

The proper way would be report the T and then if you think the player needs addressing from the coach and he in not, you can ask the coach to have a talk with him and tell him why he got the T.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Toren

Why is it "stupid"?

You gotta report your Technical to the table regardless, so what's the difference if you have a conversation first?

If you ask the Coach "Are you gonna take care of him?" or "You got him, Coach?" and THEN call a T on the kid after the Coach says "Yeah, I got him", that's stupid. It will do nothing but to incite further reaction from the Coach...

[Toren]

Originally Posted by deecee

"This player just earned a Technical, do you want to handle him?" - What's the point of the dog and pony show of whistle and either T or F depending on the answer?

If you want to do this go ahead. I think it's a stupid mechanic.

The proper way would be report the T and then if you think the player needs addressing from the coach and he in not, you can ask the coach to have a talk with him and tell him why he got the T.

So you're okay with a pony and dog show, talking to the coach afterwards, but not a dog and pony show, talking to the coach beforehand.

Again, the coach knows he just got a technical, he doesn't know what kind, the only person who knows that is me. So if the coach says, I will handle it, I might just go with a technical. This is a private discussion that only the player, coach and me would hear.

Have you seen anyone do this? Have you done it yourself? If you answered No to either of those questions, then perhaps there is a better way of doing it, that no one is using. I haven't done it either, but I wouldn't be so eager to say it's "stupid" unless I had.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If you ask the Coach "Are you gonna take care of him?" or "You got him, Coach?" and THEN call a T on the kid after the Coach says "Yeah, I got him", that's stupid. It will do nothing but to incite further reaction from the Coach...

My words were, "Coach, this player just earned a technical, do you got him".

Not sure why we're changing my words around here.

[Toren]

I think I see the issue.

I don't mean give the Technical there at the bench right after talking to the coach.

I mean I go to report the foul after talking to the coach and then I'm either going flagrant T or T.

Maybe people were picturing this incorrectly, maybe no one will ever do it this way and it doesn't matter if you T him up at the bench or when you're reporting him, but this at least should paint a clearer picture.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Toren

I think I see the issue.

I don't mean give the Technical there at the bench right after talking to the coach.

I mean I go to report the foul after talking to the coach and then I'm either going flagrant T or T.

Maybe people were picturing this incorrectly, maybe no one will ever do it this way and it doesn't matter if you T him up at the bench or when you're reporting him, but this at least should paint a clearer picture.

Then your message to the coach needs to be just that. "Coach, he earned a T. If you take him out that's all it will be. If not, then it will be a flagrant T."

It's still not a good idea, in my opinion.

I think you're trying to use a tachnique where it can't / shouldn't be used. The technique of getting a coach to help is used when a player is *approaching* the line, and you need the coach's help to pull him back. It's not used once the player crosses the line.

[stiffler3492]

If you tell a coach that his player just earned a technical, and then based on his response, you decide to upgrade it to flagrant, you've set yourself up for a problem.

Make a decision on which one it is before you talk to the coach.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

then your message to the coach needs to be just that. "coach, he earned a t. If you take him out that's all it will be. If not, then it will be a flagrant t."

it's still not a good idea, in my opinion.

I think you're trying to use a tachnique where it can't / shouldn't be used. The technique of getting a coach to help is used when a player is *approaching* the line, and you need the coach's help to pull him back. It's not used once the player crosses the line.

+1

[mbyron]

Another approach, based on my stuntman training.

1. As the ball is approaching your face, open your hand, and put the back of your hand directly against your face. Let the ball hit your hand. It should make a nice, loud smack.

2. Lean your head back, and throw your feet up. You'll begin to fall. With your free hand, reach for the floor and smack it. That will create a nice sound and break your fall.

With a little practice, you can make this look like a Class A Felony. Should have no problem selling Toren's flagrant T at that point.

Me, I'm just calling an unsporting T, not extracting a pound of flesh from the kid for the rest of the game, and playing on.

[tref]

I would never attempt the method that Toren suggests for a few reasons:

1. Whats the other coach thinking as we are having private discussions?
2. After "asking" the coach to take care of it, we visually stick the kid & that gives the perception that it was for something in the private discussion & not the unsporting act.
3. We are supposed to get with a partner on atypical situations before going to the table.
- Walk player to coach
- Ask if coach will handle him
- Give the T signal
- Go find a partner to rehearse
- FINALLY, take it to the table
Too long & drawn out.

I strongly suggest:
1. Make a decision as we are paid to do.
2. Rehearse, ask if it needs to be upgraded & take it to the table.

There is a reason we make decisions & take it to the table prior to talking with players/coaches. Just my opinion on this play Toren...

As you see its unanimous, the board has spoken & like grandma always said, "everybody aint crazy."

[fiasco]

Our job is not to coach, or to teach, or to teach coaches to teach or to coach.

Our job is to enforce the rules. Just do that.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

BTW...I might have whacked him for this.

Kids don't get to "whine and moan" at me....and if this is usual for you, you are either relatively new (I would guess somebody in their 20's) and/or need to get some advice from some veterans in your area in how to handle these situations.

But...don't get me wrong...thanks for posting this kind of stuff, it gets us all thinking about what we need to do in certain situations.

Find the right veterans, I might add. Just because they've been around for 15 years doesn't mean they know how to handle this or will do it correctly either. I know guys in their 20s that know how to handle business, and I know guys in their 50s that don't take care of anything and can't manage a game. The opposite is true as well. Don't just ask any veteran.

Originally Posted by Toren

Why is it "stupid"?

You gotta report your Technical to the table regardless, so what's the difference if you have a conversation first?

Like others have said, I don't know why you feel the need to have a conversation first. Call the T (Whether it's flagrant or not...just decide), go report it, and give the coach a brief explanation if he asks for it.

Originally Posted by Toren

My words were, "Coach, this player just earned a technical, do you got him".

Not sure why we're changing my words around here.

Why be vague though? What does "Do you got him?" mean? To the coach that might mean sit him for two minutes and put him right back in. Then you've passed on a flagrant simply because the coach said he will take care of it, when in reality he didn't do anything. Just use your judgment and things will work out.