JV Games

[Adam]

There's a third category,those who are competent, content, and comfortable at that level.

Most varsity officials here will at least catch the third quarter, if not the first half, and most JV refs will ask if they saw anything.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

There's a third category,those who are competent, content, and comfortable at that level.

Most varsity officials here will at least catch the third quarter, if not the first half, and most JV refs will ask if they saw anything.

Thanks for posting that Snags.....because thats me.....to a T.

When I got into this in my late 50's, I gave myself three years to make our state board (two years is quickest you can do it) as a varsity official.
Last year, (my 3rd) after achieving the required passing score on the written exam, getting passing scores on all my in season JV game evaluations (done by V refs), I failed the end of season floor test.

After giving it my best effort for three years (and not getting any younger) I
chose to just work JV.

Working for two assignors, I work 2-3 JV (B&G) per week in my area. I am not affiliated in any way with the state board. I'm a member of NASO, I order the current NFHS Rule Book and Case Book each year, take practice tests whenever I can get access to them, read Referee, watch NFHS on-line video and spend a lot of time here trying to learn and stay abreast with rules, case book plays, interps, philosophies, mechanics, etc.
Whenever I have the occasion to work a JV game with an official who's in the process of trying to make the state board I make sure that as their partner to make every effort to help them have a good game...especially if it's a game where they are being evaluated. Good pre-game, switching on fouls, communication during time outs, etc.etc. I won't offer up any advice...that's for the board refs assigned to the V game to do.

So while I failed in my quest to earn a state patch, I do know that I'm a better referee than I was three years ago when I first started and will continue to work hard to become better....for no other reason than my own sense of professionalism and what I feel I owe my assignors and the schools who pay me to work their JV games.

So yes, I'm a content, comfortable, and IMO competent JV referee (still with a lot to learn)......no matter what preconceived notion a board official sitting in the stands waiting to work the varsity game may have of an "old" guy working a JV game.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

. . . thats me.....to a T . . . I chose to just work JV. . . . I'm a member of NASO, I order the current NFHS Rule Book and Case Book each year, take practice tests whenever I can get access to them, read Referee, watch NFHS on-line video and spend a lot of time here trying to learn and stay abreast with rules, case book plays, interps, philosophies, mechanics, etc. I do know that I'm a better referee than I was three years ago when I first started and will continue to work hard to become better....for no other reason than my own sense of professionalism and what I feel I owe my assignors and the schools who pay me to work their JV games.

What a great point -- this third category!!! Yes, we do have a few somewhat like that, but not to the extent that you are.

[Welpe]

Are you talking about officials that work subvarsity games or those that only work subvarsity games?

I'm assuming the latter but figured I'd clarify.

[bowlingref]

I am 59 and really enjoy just reffing the games. The difference in varsity pay and j/v is $12.50 in my area. If I do a j/v game I am usually done and home no later than 8 pm. When I get the chance to do a 3 man crew on varsity,I usually get home between 10-30 to 11-00 pm. $12.50 is not worth the difference in time. Also if I get to do a "B" team double header that starts at 4 pm, that is even better. More money less travel and home early. Most of the fans have no clue wether you are a NCCA D 1 guy or local that works for the Humane Society. All they see is a striped shirt. As long as you get the calls right,the fans could care less.

[packersowner]

Long string here, this may have been said, but I think this is a touchy subject. Assuming you are a better official because you work the 7:00 game vs. the 5:30 game is poor judgement.

I work plenty of Varsity and sub-Varsity games - I appreciate feedback no matter which game I work. However, feedback should only be offered when asked for. I have a real problem when the Varsity crew starts offering unsolicited advice and then on the court and don't do some of the same things we just got done talking about.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by packersowner

Long string here, this may have been said, but I think this is a touchy subject. Assuming you are a better official because you work the 7:00 game vs. the 5:30 game is poor judgement.

It is, but I think we are living in a fantasy world if we think that most officials that are capable are working the lower level game just to get home quicker. I find that funny because a lot of guys like to be away from home and would like to go out drinking on a Friday or Saturday and not be home.

Originally Posted by packersowner

I work plenty of Varsity and sub-Varsity games - I appreciate feedback no matter which game I work. However, feedback should only be offered when asked for. I have a real problem when the Varsity crew starts offering unsolicited advice and then on the court and don't do some of the same things we just got done talking about.

And many do have a problem, but many do not ask for any feedback either. And many go on wondering why they never get varsity games.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bowlingref

all they see is a striped shirt. as long as you get the calls right, the fans could care less.

fify

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bowlingref

I am 59 and really enjoy just reffing the games. The difference in varsity pay and j/v is $12.50 in my area. If I do a j/v game I am usually done and home no later than 8 pm. When I get the chance to do a 3 man crew on varsity,I usually get home between 10-30 to 11-00 pm. $12.50 is not worth the difference in time. Also if I get to do a "B" team double header that starts at 4 pm, that is even better. More money less travel and home early. Most of the fans have no clue wether you are a NCCA D 1 guy or local that works for the Humane Society. All they see is a striped shirt. As long as you get the calls right,the fans could care less.

Varsity games take 2-3 hours up your way?

Down here the DHs go 5:30 & 7:00 (GV/BV for AAA; JV/V for AA). My 7:00 games are always done by 8:30. Once had a AAA BV in which we were back in the locker room at 8:10.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Varsity games take 2-3 hours up your way?

Our association requires arrival 1 hour before tip off for all varsity games. Many/most B/G double headers start first game at 6:30 then 20 minutes on the clock between games. So arrive at 5:30, end first game at 7:45, start second game ~8:05, end second game ~9:20.

JV B/G double header starting at 4:00. Arrive 3:40, tip at 4:00. 3 to 5 minute Half time with teams staying in team area. Game over by ~4:50. Boys game starts 5:00 done by ~5:50.

$5 less money, 2 hours and 5 minutes vs almost 4 hours.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Are you talking about officials that work subvarsity games or those that only work subvarsity games? I'm assuming the latter but figured I'd clarify.

Correct. I was referring to referees in reference to subvarsity games only. The original response to the OP came when I was fresh off watching the JV game prior to our V contest, somewhat frustrated over the situation before me that there was a category 1 matched with a category 2, as, due to numbers, commonly occurs in this area. As I serve in a role as a mentor to new officials, prepping them for their first contests, and following them up through the ranks, I find that I so often have to explain to the category 1 officials that they need to know how to do a good job on those occasions when they're matched with a category 2 official. The number of category 3 officials is minimal, and it sure would be good to have some assisting with the mentoring. When 1's are paired with 1's, it's a great thing. When 1's are matched with 2's, the 1's can get dispirited and so it is necessary to prepare them for this reality. I sure appreciate the responses to this thread which alerted me to the fact that I should really appreciate the category 3 officials when I run into them. In fact, with BillyMac as my personal role model, I hope to be one someday.
BTW - I accept every sub-varsity game that the assignor gives me. I like working with the category 1's, and I've won over a few category 2's along the way and treasure those opportunities to work with them to get them into the preferable category, either 1 or 3. Those who are in those categories usually consider this forum, in fact, a part of their course of getting better.

[bowlingref]

I was 49 when I got back into officiating. I also had veterans helping me and giving suggestions. Lots of help. One thing about the officiating deal is when the veterans suggest something to you. It is not a do as I do deal,it is a do as I say do deal. I go to several games a year with out the whistle and I see the guys that have been telling me what do, doing the same things or worse.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by bowlingref

I was 49 when I got back into officiating. I also had veterans helping me and giving suggestions. Lots of help. One thing about the officiating deal is when the veterans suggest something to you. It is not a do as I do deal,it is a do as I say do deal. I go to several games a year with out the whistle and I see the guys that have been telling me what do, doing the same things or worse.

Yep. Same here.

[amusedofficial]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

There's a third category,those who are competent, content, and comfortable at that level..

Absolutely There are some who do it for the fun of it, and actually prefer a JV schedule rather than the commitment to V games, and which often requires later nights and less control over how far you travel. This is an avocation, not a vocation; sometimes far away basketball games at night are not compatible with one's occupation.

Others just don't think the "prestige" and extra 25 bucks is worth the aggravations associated with coaches who think they're the next Bobby Knight and fans who don't realize that the vast majority of basketball games involve average to sub-average teams, and, while the participants deserve a well-officiated game in which the players decide the outcome, the bell curve of the importance of the results peaks in the third quarter and approaches zero the minute you walk out the door.

Reffing is on the cusp of athletics, and in athletics you're supposed to aim for the highest level of competition possible. But there are very competent officials doing JV basketball who are neither auditioning nor fading and who are more skilled than some V officials.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

Absolutely There are some who do it for the fun of it, and actually prefer a JV schedule rather than the commitment to V games, and which often requires later nights and less control over how far you travel. This is an avocation, not a vocation; sometimes far away basketball games at night are not compatible with one's occupation.

Others just don't think the "prestige" and extra 25 bucks is worth the aggravations associated with coaches who think they're the next Bobby Knight and fans who don't realize that the vast majority of basketball games involve average to sub-average teams, and, while the participants deserve a well-officiated game in which the players decide the outcome, the bell curve of the importance of the results peaks in the third quarter and approaches zero the minute you walk out the door.

Reffing is on the cusp of athletics, and in athletics you're supposed to aim for the highest level of competition possible. But there are very competent officials doing JV basketball who are neither auditioning nor fading and who are more skilled than some V officials.

I agree that this is a category some officials put themselves in, but that is a very very small minority in my experience. Or at least the small part is the guy that is so competent that they just stay at that level by their choice. Because if an official does this, they certainly are having to leave a job or other activities and get to a site earlier than a varsity official. Now they may get home earlier, but at least around here the earlier you have to leave the more traffic you have to fight. Usually in my experience the official that claims he does not want to do varsity has been not given the chance in the first place.

Peace