JV Games

[Toren]

Before my varsity game last night, I decided to arrive early to the game and observe the JV game.

First call, L makes the call opposite paint and calls a block, player was standing there in LGP and the offensive player took 3 or 4 steps ad bull dozed him. Okay, his angle is different than mine, maybe he saw something else.

Second call, held ball, and then a little scuffle after between the two players involved in the held ball. The official says to the scoretable "I have a dead ball double personal foul".

At this point I decided to go get changed, I had seen enough. Not sure why I got so frustrated, but I was extremely frustrated at this point.


And then in my game, I kicked a pretty insignificant call, but I won't repeat that mistake. Player catches the ball and loses his balance, he reaches down with his offhand and balances himself. So he has two feet on ground, one hand on ground. It didn't look proper, so I tweet and signal travel. Nobody said anything, but as soon as I made the call, I'm questioning it. Halftime comes, nobody says anything and I had forgotten to check with my partners. I go home and I remember that I didn't like that call, look it up. Bam, 4-44-5, I was dead wrong. Ugh, well at least if that was the worst call I had all night, I'm alrigh I guess. Won't repeat that mistake.

[JugglingReferee]

I hear ya.

[Welpe]

Any chance you can reach out to these officials regarding what they had wrong?

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Any chance you can reach out to these officials regarding what they had wrong?

Yeah I am going to, I'm a newer official and didn't want to come across like I'm better than them. I did get some advice from one of my veteran partners last night, who said I can phrase it, "Can I offer you a suggestion...".

I do want to help them get better but I felt uncomfortable just offering it without being asked. I think that wording will work for me though.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Toren

. . . observe the JV game . . . I had seen enough. Not sure why I got so frustrated, but I was extremely frustrated at this point.

Would you agree that sublevel officials fall primarily into two categories?
1) those "on their way up and eager", and
2) those "on their way down and out."

Without being unjustifiably judgmental, in which category might you deem the official(s) you mentioned fall?

We had a crew in the JV game before ours last night which included a girl, a recent college graduate, which the assignor asked if I'd go observe if I had the chance. Wow! Talk about "on the way up and eager!" After the game she stepped up and asked her partner and the varsity crew what they saw and if they had any comments and suggestions "to help me get better." What a stark contrast to some of the "Slinkies" that dot the sublevel landscape (cf. tagline of regular poster for definition of a "Slinky")!

Our assignor asks us to make a point of observing the JV action, whatever we can arrange to watch, and report back to him our findings so he can keep his finger on the pulse of those in both categories, aside from the games he's able to personally observe himself. The JV officials know this, thus many of them invite the input between games. Others avoid the subject like the plague--obvious category 2 members.

Did you have an opportunity for a "mentoring moment" after the game? Or was it a category 2 situation where you either knew it wouldn't have done any good or wouldn't have been welcome?

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Would you agree that sublevel officials fall primarily into two categories?
1) those "on their way up and eager", and
2) those "on their way down and out."

Without being unjustifiably judgmental, in which category might you deem the official(s) you mentioned fall?


Did you have an opportunity for a "mentoring moment" after the game? Or was it a category 2 situation where you either knew it wouldn't have done any good or wouldn't have been welcome?

One fell in the 1st category and I wanted to discuss some things with him. The other fell under the 2nd category.

There was a brief opportunity to talk to the 1st official, but I didn't know how to approach him. I know him from camp and we've been doing it the same amount of time. I felt I could have said a few helpful things but didn't feel comfortable doing it. I believe I will send him an email though and offer him some suggestions.

[Loudwhistle2]

Originally Posted by Toren

And then in my game, I kicked a pretty insignificant call, but I won't repeat that mistake. Player catches the ball and loses his balance, he reaches down with his offhand and balances himself. So he has two feet on ground, one hand on ground. It didn't look proper, so I tweet and signal travel. Nobody said anything, but as soon as I made the call, I'm questioning it. Halftime comes, nobody says anything and I had forgotten to check with my partners. I go home and I remember that I didn't like that call, look it up. Bam, 4-44-5, I was dead wrong. Ugh, well at least if that was the worst call I had all night, I'm alrigh I guess. Won't repeat that mistake.

Hate it when that happens and its always after you blow the whistle in my case when I remember something I read on here.

[Loudwhistle2]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Any chance you can reach out to these officials regarding what they had wrong?

With the folks I work with I usually start with "You're doing a great job out there and I have a couple of suggestions that will make you an even better ref. Want to hear them?" Well first off don't run backwards, its just a matter of time before you injure yourself. I noticed on the jump you left your whistle in your mouth while throwing up the ball. I would practice spitting your whistle out and then throwing the ball. Some refs have lost some teeth due to the whistle in their mouth. Etc...

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Would you agree that sublevel officials fall primarily into two categories?
1) those "on their way up and eager", and
2) those "on their way down and out."

I might add:

3) those that are there because of their abilities (they can be content or not, or agree with this status or not. Some may have been doing it for many yrs at this level and like the $, etc.).

May be more too.

JMO

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Toren

I felt I could have said a few helpful things but didn't feel comfortable doing it.

Strategy #1: One place you can feel comfortable and confident is if you're ever the designated R responsible for the pre-game. We've gained a lot -- and took the edge off the sometimes "hard-to-bring-up-the-real-need-for-improvement" hesitation that often besets the post-game period with some people by doing this:

Begin your pregame with a roundtable "Pet Peeves" segment. Here's how I usually phrase it, especially when I'm working with individuals who I know aren't the best at welcoming or inviting constructive critique.

Say, "What are your top two "pet peeves" of officiating? In other words, what things do you see other officials doing which you know aren't good -- and you hope that I'm not "one of those" during our game tonight? Have any pet peeves you'd like to mention?" (Mention, and discussion ensues...)"Those are good ones. Here's one or two I've heard some fellow officials mention.............."

And be sure to tactfully include a thing or two that you have observed that fellow official on your crew doing in the past. Of course, you don't come right out and say that. You're more adroit than that, and s/he, due to character, personality, etc., might not appreciate the sort of direct "Thou art the wo/man" approach that puts up barriers to what s/he really needs to hear.

Strategy #2: If you observe goofy stuff out of JV refs who later will be horning in on your V pregame, be sure to have a "Pet Peeve" session when they get in there and frame the constructive criticism in the context of you two or three talking together--not necessary about what you just saw, even though it is. Kinda a "being shrewd as snakes yet innocent as doves" sort of method that works. You know, like, "One thing we really don't wanna be doing tonight is rushing to make the ball live before making eye contact with each other", for example.

Both of these tactics have shown a measure of success around here. And, over time, those resistant to the direct approach are hearing what they need to hear. Especially with a smaller group of officials who sooner or later will be working on a crew together, it seems to work.

[Adam]

There's a third category,those who are competent, content, and comfortable at that level.

Most varsity officials here will at least catch the third quarter, if not the first half, and most JV refs will ask if they saw anything.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Toren

Before my varsity game last night, I decided to arrive early to the game and observe the JV game.

First call, L makes the call opposite paint and calls a block, player was standing there in LGP and the offensive player took 3 or 4 steps ad bull dozed him. Okay, his angle is different than mine, maybe he saw something else.

Second call, held ball, and then a little scuffle after between the two players involved in the held ball. The official says to the scoretable "I have a dead ball double personal foul".

At this point I decided to go get changed, I had seen enough. Not sure why I got so frustrated, but I was extremely frustrated at this point.


And then in my game, I kicked a pretty insignificant call, but I won't repeat that mistake. Player catches the ball and loses his balance, he reaches down with his offhand and balances himself. So he has two feet on ground, one hand on ground. It didn't look proper, so I tweet and signal travel. Nobody said anything, but as soon as I made the call, I'm questioning it. Halftime comes, nobody says anything and I had forgotten to check with my partners. I go home and I remember that I didn't like that call, look it up. Bam, 4-44-5, I was dead wrong. Ugh, well at least if that was the worst call I had all night, I'm alrigh I guess. Won't repeat that mistake.

What if that same JV official came into the locker room and said that you blew that call.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I might add:

3) those that are there because of their abilities (they can be content or not, or agree with this status or not. Some may have been doing it for many yrs at this level and like the $, etc.).

May be more too.

JMO

How about "New and Clueless"...

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

What if that same JV official came into the locker room and said that you blew that call.

I wish someone would have, because I wasn't sure. I don't mind being wrong...I definitely mind being wrong twice about the same thing.

That would have been poetic though

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

There's a third category,those who are competent, content, and comfortable at that level.

Most varsity officials here will at least catch the third quarter, if not the first half, and most JV refs will ask if they saw anything.

Thanks for posting that Snags.....because thats me.....to a T.

When I got into this in my late 50's, I gave myself three years to make our state board (two years is quickest you can do it) as a varsity official.
Last year, (my 3rd) after achieving the required passing score on the written exam, getting passing scores on all my in season JV game evaluations (done by V refs), I failed the end of season floor test.

After giving it my best effort for three years (and not getting any younger) I
chose to just work JV.

Working for two assignors, I work 2-3 JV (B&G) per week in my area. I am not affiliated in any way with the state board. I'm a member of NASO, I order the current NFHS Rule Book and Case Book each year, take practice tests whenever I can get access to them, read Referee, watch NFHS on-line video and spend a lot of time here trying to learn and stay abreast with rules, case book plays, interps, philosophies, mechanics, etc.
Whenever I have the occasion to work a JV game with an official who's in the process of trying to make the state board I make sure that as their partner to make every effort to help them have a good game...especially if it's a game where they are being evaluated. Good pre-game, switching on fouls, communication during time outs, etc.etc. I won't offer up any advice...that's for the board refs assigned to the V game to do.

So while I failed in my quest to earn a state patch, I do know that I'm a better referee than I was three years ago when I first started and will continue to work hard to become better....for no other reason than my own sense of professionalism and what I feel I owe my assignors and the schools who pay me to work their JV games.

So yes, I'm a content, comfortable, and IMO competent JV referee (still with a lot to learn)......no matter what preconceived notion a board official sitting in the stands waiting to work the varsity game may have of an "old" guy working a JV game.