By Request Of Eyezen

[eyezen]

APG - thanks for posting

[Wellmer]

I guess I am in the minority here. From the first glance at the video, I thought the defender got LGP but then he slid over as the dribbler tried his best to avoid contact. I don't think the defender got his left foot back down on the floor, but this was a bang bang play. I do notice watching some college games on TV, officials seem to reward the defense even if they slide over into the offensive player to force the contact. Has anyone else noticed that?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Wellmer

I guess I am in the minority here. From the first glance at the video, I thought the defender got LGP but then he slid over as the dribbler tried his best to avoid contact. I don't think the defender got his left foot back down on the floor, but this was a bang bang play. I do notice watching some college games on TV, officials seem to reward the defense even if they slide over into the offensive player to force the contact. Has anyone else noticed that?

Are you confusing the requirements for establishing LGP with the rules for maintaining LGP?

[Wellmer]

Youv'e got a point there!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Are you confusing the requirements for establishing LGP with the rules for maintaining LGP?

Or the rules for maintaining LGP for a dribbler as opposed to an airborne shooter?

[srp6977]

I say charge.

On a side note #30 for Indiana is Matt Roth from Washington, IL. I officiated his games from 5th grade through his Senior year. State record holder for most 3's made in a career. Great player and a great kid.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by Wellmer

I guess I am in the minority here. From the first glance at the video, I thought the defender got LGP but then he slid over as the dribbler tried his best to avoid contact. I don't think the defender got his left foot back down on the floor, but this was a bang bang play. I do notice watching some college games on TV, officials seem to reward the defense even if they slide over into the offensive player to force the contact. Has anyone else noticed that?

I'm with Wellmer, its a tough angle, but the defender looks to slide up underneth A1 while he is in his shooting motion. A1 takes a side step to avoid the contact and B1 then takes his side step to create the contact. I don't think you would have gotten much flak if this one was called either way, but I had a block also.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I'm with Wellmer, its a tough angle, but the defender looks to slide up underneth A1 while he is in his shooting motion. A1 takes a side step to avoid the contact and B1 then takes his side step to create the contact. I don't think you would have gotten much flak if this one was called either way, but I had a block also.

Your post shows a misunderstanding of the rules involved. Unless the shooter is airborne -- he isn't -- the defender can move in this way legally.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I'm with Wellmer, its a tough angle, but the defender looks to slide up underneth A1 while he is in his shooting motion. A1 takes a side step to avoid the contact and B1 then takes his side step to create the contact. I don't think you would have gotten much flak if this one was called either way, but I had a block also.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Your post shows a misunderstanding of the rules involved. Unless the shooter is airborne -- he isn't -- the defender can move in this way legally.

I'm with Rich. ballgame99, can I suggest that you review this thread by Freddy?

Act of Shooting Doc. - Peer Review Requested

He made a very nice document that shows the relationship between all the variables we need to observe in a play like this Here is the document: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...hl=en_US&pli=1

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I'm with Rich. ballgame99, can I suggest that you review this thread by Freddy?

Act of Shooting Doc. - Peer Review Requested

He made a very nice document that shows the relationship between all the variables we need to observe in a play like this Here is the document: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...hl=en_US&pli=1

I say look at the video again. B1 establishes LGP then when A1 moves left B1 moves in the same direction. And B1 even gets both feet down again before A1 goes airborne.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I say look at the video again. B1 establishes LGP then when A1 moves left B1 moves in the same direction. And B1 even gets both feet down again before A1 goes airborne.

The file linked looks like it has more to do with continuous motion vs block/charge and LGP, but it sounds like I may have a misunderstanding of the rule. What is the rule that talks about the offensive player having to be airborne? I've always worked under the understanding that the defensive player has to be set before the shooting motion has started.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

The file linked looks like it has more to do with continuous motion vs block/charge and LGP, but it sounds like I may have a misunderstanding of the rule. What is the rule that talks about the offensive player having to be airborne? I've always worked under the understanding that the defensive player has to be set before the shooting motion has started.

Since this was an NCAA play I'm quoting the NCAA rule:

Rule 4 Section 35. Guarding

Art. 4. To establish an initial legal guarding position on the player with the ball:
a. The guard shall have both feet touching the playing court. When the guard jumps into position initially, both feet must return to the playing court after the jump, for the guard to attain a legal guarding position.
b. The guard’s torso shall face the opponent.
c. No time and distance shall be required.
d. When the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard shall have attained legal guarding position before the opponent left the playing court.
(Exception: Rule 4-35.7)


(the exception noted refers to secondary defenders in the restricted area arc)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

The file linked looks like it has more to do with continuous motion vs block/charge and LGP, but it sounds like I may have a misunderstanding of the rule. What is the rule that talks about the offensive player having to be airborne? I've always worked under the understanding that the defensive player has to be set before the shooting motion has started.

4-Guarding (4-23?) pretty clearly states something to the effect of "the guard must have obtained LGP before the opponent becomes airborne" and not "before the opponent starts his/her try"

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

4-Guarding (4-23?) pretty clearly states something to the effect of "the guard must have obtained LGP before the opponent becomes airborne" and not "before the opponent starts his/her try"

4-23-4:

Guarding an opponent with the ball or a stationary opponent without
the ball:
a. No time or distance is required to obtain an initial legal position.
b. If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal
position before the opponent left the floor.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I've always worked under the understanding that the defensive player has to be set before the shooting motion has started.

Others have posted the correct rules for the main part of your question...I would like to ask you to get the word "set" out of your understanding of the whole block/charge scenario. The defender does not need to be "set" in order for it to be a PC call. Just a pet peeve of mine...