Swing and a miss

[Welpe]

Here's one for the group to ponder. Hard (but common) foul called on B1. A1 takes exception to this and right after the whistle, takes an open handed slap at B1 but misses. Options?

[Adam]

Close down while you call the T. Consider going flagrant. It may not be a punch, but it's close. It would probably depend on how hard the swing was.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Here's one for the group to ponder. Hard (but common) foul called on B1. A1 takes exception to this and right after the whistle, takes an open handed slap at B1 but misses. Options?

Attempt to strike is a fight by definition. A1 gets tossed immediately. Consider upgrading the initial foul.

That's my take.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Here's one for the group to ponder. Hard (but common) foul called on B1. A1 takes exception to this and right after the whistle, takes an open handed slap at B1 but misses. Options?

Fighting is defined has actions that do not involve contact. I probably would go that route and get rid of A1.

Peace

[jTheUmp]

Flagrant T for fighting. Attempting to fight and failing is still fighting.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Here's one for the group to ponder. Hard (but common) foul called on B1. A1 takes exception to this and right after the whistle, takes an open handed slap at B1 but misses. Options?

In our neck of the woods, this would be considered fighting ... flagrant act T.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by Toren

Attempt to strike is a fight by definition. A1 gets tossed immediately. Consider upgrading the initial foul.

That's my take.

Upgrade initial to intentional? Flagrant?

[tref]

Coach: Why is he ejected, he missed!!
Official: Should've got his moneys worth, goodnight!

[Toren]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Upgrade initial to intentional? Flagrant?

Definitely a conference to figure out if an upgrade is warranted. Just from pure reading the OP it's hard to determine, but in an actual game, I could easily see the initial foul being a hard foul getting upgraded to either intentional or flagrant.

Flagrant only if we think it was intended to provoke the fight.

Since this is all hypothetical, the only sure thing I know is the kid who swung and missed is getting a Flagrant and ejected. Everything else is academic.

[Welpe]

Hm...well thank you for the responses. This happened during one of my 7th grade girls games on Monday. I assessed a technical but not a flagrant. The slap seemed to be more of a "get off me" / frustrated reaction than anything else and a flagrant did not seem to fit the crime. I know that fighting does not require contact but it didn't seem right to call this act fighting. Guess I need to reconsider my thought process here.

Also no way the foul by B1 should have been upgraded, it wasn't even close to intentional nor was it excessive contact.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Hm...well thank you for the responses. This happened during one of my 7th grade girls games on Monday. I assessed a technical but not a flagrant. The slap seemed to me more of a "get off me" / frustrated reaction than anything else and a flagrant did not seem to fit the crime to me. I know that fighting does not require contact but it didn't seem right to call this act fighting. Maybe I will reconsider.

Also no way the foul by B1 should have been upgraded, it wasn't even close to intentional nor was it excessive contact.

Good conference. Report, foul, flagrant foul. Administer in that order.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Hm...well thank you for the responses. This happened during one of my 7th grade girls games on Monday. I assessed a technical but not a flagrant. The slap seemed to be more of a "get off me" / frustrated reaction than anything else and a flagrant did not seem to fit the crime. I know that fighting does not require contact but it didn't seem right to call this act fighting. Guess I need to reconsider my thought process here.

Also no way the foul by B1 should have been upgraded, it wasn't even close to intentional nor was it excessive contact.

I like that for 7th grade girls. A T seems about right: serious penalty for the infraction, but DQ probably not warranted. She'll learn from that and fix it; or not, and get tossed when she does it in a JV game. Kudos.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Hm...well thank you for the responses. This happened during one of my 7th grade girls games on Monday. I assessed a technical but not a flagrant. The slap seemed to be more of a "get off me" / frustrated reaction than anything else and a flagrant did not seem to fit the crime. I know that fighting does not require contact but it didn't seem right to call this act fighting. Guess I need to reconsider my thought process here.

Also no way the foul by B1 should have been upgraded, it wasn't even close to intentional nor was it excessive contact.

I honestly think you handled it correctly, assuming the movie in my brain matches what happened. I'm thinking more of a reactive flail than a premeditated attempt to strike the opponent.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I honestly think you handled it correctly, assuming the movie in my brain matches what happened. I'm thinking more of a reactive flail than a premeditated attempt to strike the opponent.

good terminology

+1

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Hm...well thank you for the responses. This happened during one of my 7th grade girls games on Monday. I assessed a technical but not a flagrant. The slap seemed to be more of a "get off me" / frustrated reaction than anything else and a flagrant did not seem to fit the crime. I know that fighting does not require contact but it didn't seem right to call this act fighting. Guess I need to reconsider my thought process here.

Also no way the foul by B1 should have been upgraded, it wasn't even close to intentional nor was it excessive contact.

The dividing line for me is how the slap is delivered and where it's aimed. If it's a pushing motion aimed below the shoulders, I'm thinking technical (because this usually feels like a defensive action to me). If it's swung or aimed above the shoulders, I'm thinking flagrant (because this feels offensive to me).

A "get off me" is usually going to be a straight technical if severe enough to be anything.