Held Ball on the Throw-in

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by jhc2010

team a has a throw-in. A1 reaches the ball through the plane and b1 grabs the ball and ties it up. Should a held ball be called even though a1 is out of bounds? Where is this in the rule book?

7.6.4f

(Wow, you other guys are fast with your responses! You must have employment like I have where you can just stand by monitoring the forum 12 hours a day at the ready to fire off the first answer possible.)

[Amesman]

Is it 2012 already? OK, we've established at least one of us is off to a slow start ... I forget why, if this is an AP situation, the ball doesn't revert to B to inbound on this play.

And a related query from locker room musings weeks ago by a fellow official: While all contact by a defending reaching across to an inbounder is now deemed an intentional foul, what's the call if, as in the OP above, inbounder A reaches across the imaginary line and then is hacked on the arm? Just a personal foul on B?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Amesman

And a related query from locker room musings weeks ago by a fellow official: While all contact by a defending reaching across to an inbounder is now deemed an intentional foul, what's the call if, as in the OP above, inbounder A reaches across the imaginary line and then is hacked on the arm? Just a personal foul on B?

Contact with the thrower-in by the defender (no matter where the ball is in regards to OOB or across the inbounds plane is an intentional personal foul.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Amesman

And a related query from locker room musings weeks ago by a fellow official: While all contact by a defending reaching across to an inbounder is now deemed an intentional foul, what's the call if, as in the OP above, inbounder A reaches across the imaginary line and then is hacked on the arm? Just a personal foul on B?

9.2 PENALTIES . . . intentional foul regardless whether the inbounder has his arms over the in- or out-of-bounds area.

(Shucks, not quick enough again!)

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Freddy

9.2 PENALTIES . . . intentional foul regardless whether the inbounder has his arms over the in- or out-of-bounds area.

(Shucks, not quick enough again!)

Thanks, both. Only had copies of last year's books at the office.

But back to my original sheepish question: Why doesn't possession go to Team B if it's AP (held ball) time? There was no violation or foul by B.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Thanks, both. Only had copies of last year's books at the office.

But back to my original sheepish question: Why doesn't possession go to Team B if it's AP (held ball) time? There was no violation or foul by B.

Thanks Bob, Hawkeye and APG -- was just buried in my own typing in previous comment/question and didin't see your answers. Seems odd that this could go Groundhog's Day if B did it, say, several times in a row.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Thanks Bob, Hawkeye and APG -- was just buried in my own typing in previous comment/question and didin't see your answers. Seems odd that this could go Groundhog's Day if B did it, say, several times in a row.

I would say Team A is stupid for repeatedly holding the ball over the plane and allowing Team B to tie them up. Keep the ball on their side of the plane and at worse, they're getting a delay of game warning on B if they cross the plane and miss the ball/thrower.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Thanks Bob, Hawkeye and APG -- was just buried in my own typing in previous comment/question and didin't see your answers. Seems odd that this could go Groundhog's Day if B did it, say, several times in a row.

Just the way it is, though. Case play 6.4.5.B.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Just the way it is, though. Case play 6.4.5.B.

And the first line of that starts, "During an alternating possession throw-in ..." How is it treated differently if this happens during a non-AP determined throw-in? (Sorry, but that was nagging this fuzzbrain since JR brought it up previously.)

Just following through because I get the anxious feeling that, just like playing the same lotto numbers for a while and then quitting -- BAM! -- you know the sitch is going to come up at the next opportunity. After this I merely lurk and learn for a while. Promise.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Is it 2012 already? OK, we've established at least one of us is off to a slow start ... I forget why, if this is an AP situation, the ball doesn't revert to B to inbound on this play.

Hint: When does the arrow change?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Is it 2012 already? OK, we've established at least one of us is off to a slow start ... I forget why, if this is an AP situation, the ball doesn't revert to B to inbound on this play.

If the above play was an alternating possession throw-in, and B1 is able to cause a held ball with thrower A1, it doesn't revert to B because Team A's throw-in hasn't ended and the AP doesn't change unless A commits a violation or until the throw-in is completed.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Amesman

I forget why, if this is an AP situation, the ball doesn't revert to B to inbound on this play.

Because, by rule, the AP throw-in has not yet ended.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Amesman

While all contact by a defending reaching across to an inbounder is now deemed an intentional foul, what's the call if, as in the OP above, inbounder A reaches across the imaginary line and then is hacked on the arm? Just a personal foul on B?

The defender may not break the imaginary plane during a throwin until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass. If the defender breaks the imaginary plane during a throwin before the ball has been released on a throw-in pass, the defender’s team will receive a team delay warning, or if the team has already been warned for one of the four delay situations, this action would result in a team technical foul. If the defender contacts the ball after breaking the imaginary plane, it is a player technical foul and a team delay warning will be recorded. If the defender breaks the imaginary plane, and fouls the inbounding player, it is an intentional personal foul, and a team delay warning will be recorded. It is an intentional personal foul if the defender fouls the inbounding player, even without breaking the imaginary plane, however, in this specific case, there is no delay of game warning because the defender did not break the boundary plane.

[just another ref]

How many have actually seen this happen? I have not.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Freddy

7.6.4f

(Wow, you other guys are fast with your responses! You must have employment like I have where you can just stand by monitoring the forum 12 hours a day at the ready to fire off the first answer possible.)

*insert plumber joke here*