(Un)Correctable Error & Shot Clock Use ?

[bd41flpk]

Had these scenarios occur in games in my local area and would welcome some insights and rule references.....( NFHS rules )

(Un)Correctable Error

Team A has just scored and then calls timeout. As fate would have it (during dead time) the 2 officials lose track of who gets the ball out of bounds to start play. They administer the throw back again to Team A, who then inbounds the ball and gets a layup. Naturally the coach of Team B is furious. The officials did a 'my bad' and took the points off the board and awarded Team B the ball for a throw-in.

Thought: Since it was an official error this is not correctable and the basket should have counted? Technically, could Team A have been assessed a Technical for a delay of game penalty ? Any rule reference would be appreciated.

Shot Clock

(I know this is a tough one since NFHS does not play with a 'shot-clock' ruling and for the most part goes with a variation of the NCAA(M/W) rules)

Game has gone on with many issues with the shot-clock operation throughout the game; whereby the officials had to continually had to stop the game to re-set the shot-clock. Finally w/02:30 left in the 4th Q, the visiting team requests that they shut the shot-clock off since it is impacting the game itself. The coach of the Home team of course does not wish to. The visiting team then protests at that point.

Is there any ruling/justification to actually shut-down the shot clock as of that point in the game?

One final question - If you get to a gym and only one shot-clock is working, can the officials also decide to NOT use the shot-clock since only one team will have viewable each half?

Cheers and Happy New Year to the bloggers.....

[mbyron]

No idea about the shot clock question.

For the first question: you're right, this is not a CE. Once the throw-in is over, by rule you're done. You can fix it until the throw-in is over. The officials did not handle it correctly by the book.

That said, at any level sub-varsity, I would consider fixing it the way they did. Of course, I like to think this would never happen to me....

[bob jenkins]

I would guess that they can't "not use" the shot clock in either scenario. In the second one, they should use a stop watch with the timer calling off the time periodically -- 15, 10 , 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 for example.

[BillyMac]

Here in Connecticut, private prep schools use a "hybrid" version of NFHS, and NCAA, rules, that utilize a shot clock for varsity games.

The following is written into their "hybrid" rules:

If shot clock operator presents ongoing mistakes, consider:
- removal and replacement
- removal and officiate game with no shot clock

In my opinion, if we can officiate the game without a shot clock due to errors by the shot clock operator, then I would have no problems officiating the game without a shot clock due to shot clock errors.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

...

Game has gone on with many issues with the shot-clock operation throughout the game; whereby the officials had to continually had to stop the game to re-set the shot-clock. Finally w/02:30 left in the 4th Q, the visiting team requests that they shut the shot-clock off since it is impacting the game itself. The coach of the Home team of course does not wish to. The visiting team then protests at that point.
.....

Exactly why I don't want to see a shot clock at the HS level.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Exactly why I don't want to see a shot clock at the HS level.

The bigger part of it for me as well.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Exactly why I don't want to see a shot clock at the HS level.

As I stated earlier, we use shot clocks for varsity prep school games. In almost all our games, the shot clock operator is a student, thus the reason why we have a rule in place that allows us to either replace the shot clock operator, or to actually officiate the game with no shot clock. And with a student assigned to these duties, we have problems almost all the time.

Funny? The shot clock operators for these boys games are almost always girls. Now why would a teenage girl want to be surrounded by a bunch of athletic, teenage, boys?

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I would guess that they can't "not use" the shot clock in either scenario. In the second one, they should use a stop watch with the timer calling off the time periodically -- 15, 10 , 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 for example.

I've been at a few NCAA-M low level (NAIA / USCAA) games where the shot clock acted up.

In one game, the time was kept at the table with the PA announcer updating every 5 seconds (I don't remember it getting blow 5 seconds at all in the game).

In the other game, the shot clocks were the portable kind with seven segment LEDs. For whatever reason, the upper three LEDS an all the shot clocks weren't working, so th ePA guy was told to count down the last 10 seconds. (Luckily, that only happened once).

I once was at an NCAA-W game where the host school plays in local high school gyms and didn't have access to their portable shot clocks due to a holiday break. (nice I know. )

So we played that game with no shot clock. It got interesting when our team -- the guests -- decided to go into a stall late in the game and killed well over a minute off the clock at one point, much the the chagrin of the home fans who wondered why there was no 30 second violation.

[Jfpdi]

Handing the ball to the wrong team happened last year in a local boys varsity game to a crew from our local board after a timeout late in the game. The visiting team erronously was given the ball to inbound, buried a three and their coach kept reminding the official it could not be corrected once the throw in ended. The home coach went ballistic, got T'd up and lost by 3.

We use shot clocks in NY boys and girls Varsity and JV. Most schools I have worked at pay the table crew so usually they are pretty good. Sometimes you have to fix their errors but overall I'd say it works ok.

I will say I attended a 2 day clinic 2 years ago where they used a shot clock. The kids operating it were a disaster and the observer was all over our crew for not paying enough attention to the clocks while the game was going on and afterwards. I have since become a lot more aware of the clocks and believe I am better for that lesson.

[chseagle]

A couple of years ago, I did the 4A Regionals at the local arena & on the girls' court the whole scoreboard malfunctioned barely into the 1st game of the tournament. For the rest of that day we used iPods/iPhones & stopwatches for game clock, shot clock, & TOs. For the shot clock, whoever was shot clock would count down the shot clock for the coaches to hear & if time ran out the PA announcer would say "buzz". For the game clock, the PA Announcer would announce by the minute the time left & then either "buzz" or "end of quarter/half/game" as well as count out the last ten seconds of the quarter.

Concerning the use of the shot clock, it is normally mandated by the state association, so it's they who have the final say as to what is acceptable & not concerning the display of the shot clock & it's use.

Generally for the shot clock display, either a display at both ends of the court or if a single display, the shot clock is to be opposite of the scorers' table.

[ga314ref]

Originally Posted by Jfpdi

Handing the ball to the wrong team happened last year in a local boys varsity game to a crew from our local board after a timeout late in the game. The visiting team erronously was given the ball to inbound, buried a three and their coach kept reminding the official it could not be corrected once the throw in ended. The home coach went ballistic, got T'd up and lost by 3.

We use shot clocks in NY boys and girls Varsity and JV. Most schools I have worked at pay the table crew so usually they are pretty good. Sometimes you have to fix their errors but overall I'd say it works ok.

I will say I attended a 2 day clinic 2 years ago where they used a shot clock. The kids operating it were a disaster and the observer was all over our crew for not paying enough attention to the clocks while the game was going on and afterwards. I have since become a lot more aware of the clocks and believe I am better for that lesson.

...many years ago when my sister played in Brooklyn, HS girls had a 30-second clock. And no backcourt violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ga314ref

Many years ago when my sister played in Brooklyn, HS girls had a 30-second clock. And no backcourt violation.

Six on six?

[eyezen]

Being a Jeffersonian kinda guy, I would at least like to see the state associations have the option (officially) to have a shot clock.

[BayStateRef]

Mass. uses the shot clock at all levels...and it works just fine, even with student table crews. I've seen every kind of "problem" -- from one display not working, displays showing only parts of the number (so you can't tell if it's a 7 or a 1), the default reset being set (by error) to :15; even a clock operator who was drunk. But these are no more of a problem than any other I have to deal with...and certainly no reason to be wary of adding a shot clock to your state.

Mass. adopted the NCAA shot clock rules...which require there shall be a shot clock. There is no discretion in that. You can use any resource (the rule requires an alternate timing device be available) including a stop watch, the game clock, etc. You also can (and should) remove any table personnel who is not competent to perform the job. But you cannot turn off the clock...no more than you can decide that a layup is not 2 points because it is so close to the basket.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

A layup is not 2 points because it is so close to the basket.

Not true. A layup is still two points. A dunk is only one point.

Years ago, didn't ESPN, or MTV, or some other cable network catering to the young adult demographic, have some type of basketball game where different spots on the court were worth differing numbers of points? Now that went over really well, didn't' it?