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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 12:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packersowner View Post
Agree with the correctable error part, I guess I should have stated that I didn't believe this was a correctable error so therefore anything that occurred should be counted.

Does anyone address with the table crew before game when they should use the horn to alert you? I would guess most players would stop playing when they heard the horn.
I do sometimes tell table people to not use that horn for all kinds of things like substitutions or unless nothing is going on. And sometimes players stop and sometimes they don't. It really depends on what is going on and what action is taking place.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 12:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren View Post
So everyone agrees the officials stopped the game during the flight of the ball?

And, everyone is saying, count the basket and POI is endline throw in? Am I reading everyone correctly?
I don't know how we can make it any clearer.

Once a shot is in flight, only a whistle for a PC foul by an airborne shooter causes the ball to become dead. Otherwise, the shot is good if it goes.

It's no different that a whistle for a double foul while a shot is in flight.

EDIT: And for Scrapper, an elbow swinging violation while the ball is in flight, something I've never called or seen.
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Last edited by BktBallRef; Fri Dec 23, 2011 at 01:01pm.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 12:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Once a shot is in flight, only a whistle for a PC foul by an airborne shooter causes the ball to become dead. Otherwise, the shot is good if it goes.
What if a member of the shooting team swings his/her elbows excessively to get rebounding space?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 12:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren View Post
So everyone agrees the officials stopped the game during the flight of the ball?

And, everyone is saying, count the basket and POI is endline throw in? Am I reading everyone correctly?
Yes you are. Violations against the team shooting the ball and PC fouls against an airborne shooter are the only things that would disallow the basket.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 01:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post

Once a shot is in flight, only a whistle for a PC foul by an airborne shooter causes the ball to become dead.
I think we know what you are saying, but a part of the earlier confusion was about what made the ball dead, the whistle or the horn. With that in mind, perhaps it should be pointed out that in this case, it is not the whistle which makes the ball dead, but the foul.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 01:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren View Post
So everyone agrees the officials stopped the game during the flight of the ball?

And, everyone is saying, count the basket and POI is endline throw in? Am I reading everyone correctly?
If you have an inadvertent whistle during a shot by A (ball in flight), your POI will depend upon whether the shot goes in.

If it goes in, B gets the ball for an end line throw-in. If it does not, you go with the arrow.

Same with double fouls that occur while a ball is in flight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren View Post
I never have, it's so infrequent, I would think it would cause more problems than solve.

I've seen plenty of horns go off for substitutes when the ball is in play already and we just continue playing. I've also seen officials stop play and inbound the ball again and tell the substitute and the table they cannot sub right now.
Normally, with a sub situation and the horn goes off, I verbally tell the players to play on. If I have to blow my whistle (because players have stopped playing), I will allow the subs. There's no basis for not allowing the subs once you blow your whistle.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 01:39pm
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*Shame on that table crew for not informing their officials on the floor that a kid has thier 5'th foul.

*Secondly-around here officials will tell us their preferences on horn use with subs.Some like it and others don't.A vast majority do like it.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 02:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
If you have an inadvertent whistle during a shot by A (ball in flight), your POI will depend upon whether the shot goes in.

If it goes in, B gets the ball for an end line throw-in. If it does not, you go with the arrow.

Same with double fouls that occur while a ball is in flight.
That's the part I was missing, Thanks.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 03:02pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I think we know what you are saying, but a part of the earlier confusion was about what made the ball dead, the whistle or the horn.
I wasn't addressing just the OP. I was addressing Toren's earlier reply, pasted below. He was of the opinion that a whistle causes a shot in flight to become dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren
The Horn doesn't make the ball dead, the whistle makes the ball dead. So if the officials blew their whistles while the ball was in flight, that was on the officiating crew.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 11:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper View Post
*Shame on that table crew for not informing their officials on the floor that a kid has thier 5'th foul.

*Secondly-around here officials will tell us their preferences on horn use with subs.Some like it and others don't.A vast majority do like it.
I once had a game where I both announced the 5th foul overhead and showed five fingers to the calling official, and he still didn't disqualify the player. When there was finally a point for me to tell the crew again about the 5th foul, the official told me I needed to tell them sooner.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 23, 2011, 11:43pm
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Originally Posted by Stat-Man View Post
I once had a game where I both announced the 5th foul overhead and showed five fingers to the calling official, and he still didn't disqualify the player. When there was finally a point for me to tell the crew again about the 5th foul, the official told me I needed to tell them sooner.
Whether it's their preference or not, in this case I suggest big-time use of the horn.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 24, 2011, 10:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
1) When the ball is dead or at the disposal of or in control of team B.

2) It's not a CE. The rest of this statement is correct.

3) Count the 6th foul, get the player out, resume with the action resulting from the 6th foul (FTs or throw in). The player isn't DQd until the officials are notified, and if they're not notified until the 6th (or 7th...) foul, then whatever happened, happened.
Bob, why would this not be a correctable error? The officials erroneously cancelled the score by inadvertently setting aside 2.11.3 "if the scorer signals while the ball is live the official should ignore the signal if a scoring play is in progress." If Coach A had the where-withall to ask to discuss the situation within the time frame and the officials realized their mistake, couldn't they award the points?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 24, 2011, 10:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
Bob, why would this not be a correctable error? The officials erroneously cancelled the score by inadvertently setting aside 2.11.3 "if the scorer signals while the ball is live the official should ignore the signal if a scoring play is in progress." If Coach A had the where-withall to ask to discuss the situation within the time frame and the officials realized their mistake, couldn't they award the points?
It was an error, and it was correctable, but it wasn't YET a CE.

If the question was ... "then, at the next dead ball, the table buzzed and asked about the goal..." we'd have a CE.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 27, 2011, 04:17pm
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The key is that the horn does not stop the game, the whistle/officials stop the game.

If the player is allowed to continue to play due to a book-keeping error you disqualify the player when notified. The basket would score in this case.
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