Table Authority and 5th Foul

[Toren]

Originally Posted by packersowner

I was asked this question yesterday by a co-worker who attended a game the night before, now it has me thinking.


1. Player B1 commits a foul, official reports it, play resumes.
2. Team A throws the ball in, A1 scores a basket but while the ball is in flight, the table buzzes the horn.

Apparently the officials at that point stopped the game, confirmed the 5th foul on B1, B1 left the game, and the officials reset the action with Team A throwing the ball in from the original spot. Basket was not awarded.

My thinking is two-fold:

1. The table should not have buzzed the horn during the shot and should have waited until a dead ball, but it begs the question, "When does the table have authority to sound the horn and interrupt play?"

2. Secondly, based on how I read correctable errors, the basket should have counted. The DQ player would be removed and play would resume from the POI.

Finally, if the scenario continued on, how would you handle a sixth foul by Player B1 had he fouled on the play?

The Horn doesn't make the ball dead, the whistle makes the ball dead. So if the officials blew their whistles while the ball was in flight, that was on the officiating crew. Secondly, they can't resume at POI by giving the ball to Team A because the POI was the ball in flight, so it goes AP arrow.

The officials should have waited until the result of the shot was completed, the scoretable can buzz the horn whenever they realize their mistake but it's up to us to recognize a good spot to actually make the ball dead. The ball in flight is probably the worst time.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Toren

The Horn doesn't make the ball dead, the whistle makes the ball dead. So if the officials blew their whistles while the ball was in flight, that was their error. Secondly, they can't resume at POI by giving the ball to Team A because the POI was the ball in flight, so it goes AP arrow.
....

The ball went through the basket so POI for this sitch is a endline throw-in for Team B.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The ball went through the basket so POI for this sitch is a endline throw-in for Team B.

Correct but from the OP it reads like the officials stopped play while ball was in flight before the ball went through the basket.

Then they decided to ignore the POI and just give the ball to Team A on a throw in, no points awarded.

So they should have either gone POI, AP throw in, before the ball went through the basket OR

As you suggest, after the ball went through the basket so endline throw-in for Team B.

They didn't do either.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Toren

Correct but from the OP it reads like the officials stopped play while ball was in flight before the ball went through the basket.

Then they decided to ignore the POI and just give the ball to Team A on a throw in, no points awarded.

So they should have either gone POI, AP throw in, before the ball went through the basket OR

As you suggest, after the ball went through the basket so endline throw-in for Team B.

They didn't do either.

What?

They should have:

Counted the basket, DQ'd B1, and resumed play at the POI (throw-in for Team B).

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tjones1

What?

They should have:

Counted the basket, DQ'd B1, and resumed play at the POI (throw-in for Team B).

I agree. They should have.

But if the ball is dead by rule when the whistle blows and the whistle blew during the flight of the ball. You can't just ignore that fact.

So if I'm interpreting the OP correctly, we don't have a made basket, we have an AP throw in. The whistle sounded before the ball went through the goal.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Toren

I agree. They should have.

But if the ball is dead by rule when the whistle blows and the whistle blew during the flight of the ball. You can't just ignore that fact.

So if I'm interpreting the OP correctly, we don't have a made basket, we have an AP throw in. The whistle sounded before the ball went through the goal.

So when the whistle sounds for a foul while a shot is in flight you always wave off the made basket?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Ah no, it doesn't.

The only time a whistle by an official causes the ball to be dead when a shot is in flight is when a PC foul occurs.

Even if the officials had blown the whistle instead of the horn sounding, the ball would still not have become dead.




You're not. Count the basket, give the ball to the opponent for a endline throw-in.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So when the whistle sounds for a foul while a shot is in flight you always wave off the made basket?

Originally Posted by Toren

I agree. They should have.

But if the ball is dead by rule when the whistle blows and the whistle blew during the flight of the ball. You can't just ignore that fact.

So if I'm interpreting the OP correctly, we don't have a made basket, we have an AP throw in. The whistle sounded before the ball went through the goal.

As Tony and BNR are saying...

Check out 6-7.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Toren

The Horn doesn't make the ball dead, the whistle makes the ball dead. So if the officials blew their whistles while the ball was in flight, that was on the officiating crew.

Ah no, it doesn't.

The only time a whistle by an official causes the ball to be dead when a shot is in flight is when a PC foul occurs.

Even if the officials had blown the whistle instead of the horn sounding, the ball would still not have become dead.

Originally Posted by Toren

So if I'm interpreting the OP correctly, we don't have a made basket, we have an AP throw in. The whistle sounded before the ball went through the goal.

You're not. Count the basket, give the ball to the opponent for a endline throw-in.