The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 23, 2004, 12:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 768
i have worked high school 3 man for 6 years and will call my first season of college ball this year and i know the game is constantly changing at every level...i worked AAU camp this summer and we did use the TABLE SIDE SWITCH, and it has it's goods and bads.. Those of you that have been using it for a while at the college level, is it much more of a hassle to have to be right in the coaches ear after a bang bang play that they didn't like or is it easier to explain to him what you saw and go on??? i know high school games this summer, i didn't like it very well..way to much talking going on by the coaches, they wanted everything explained to them, but when we went opposite the table, they new if they wanted us to hear what they are saying they would have to yell it out and it could possibly cause them getting stuck if they said to much...i kind of liked the idea of getting away from them... So from a college referee stand point, is it better to be table side??
__________________
DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 23, 2004, 12:57pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,135
I think you have to separate the college game from the HS game. College coaches tend to be more professional and know more of the officials as professionals. They are not ranting and raving about 3 seconds and other suspect violations and fouls. College coaches complain about the big stuff. It was easy when I worked college game because they might say something, but they were not screaming.

In the HS game, the coaches rant and rave much more. Especially the lower level coaches. I have heard several varsity coaches roll their eyes to the behavior of their JV and Freshman coaches. I worked the table side mechanic this summer and I loved it. Many of the lower level coaches were acting as the head coaches and they did not say much of anything. You would call a foul and they would leave you alone after a brief conversation.

I will also have to say that I have been around the block and those officials that have been around the block as well might not have much of a problem with this mechanic. Of course it is new and many will find a problem at first. But once coaches realize that the calling official will come to their side of the court, I think they will stop yelling at the other officials to get an explanation. It worked much better than anticipated.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 23, 2004, 01:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 768
Thumbs up

well said, thanks
__________________
DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 23, 2004, 01:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,592
I really don't have a problem talking to coaches so when I heard of the change, I welcomed it. Although, many didn't like it. My experiences from this summer were extrememly positive. I'm not saying every coach agreed with me, just that they realized they could ask a question and get an answer. It seems that their first question/answer of the game would set the presidence for the game. Why yell if you can have a "short" reasonable conversation? It's important that they don't expect an explaination on EVERY call. If time permits, slow down you speech and lower your voice, if you are lucky, you can lull them to sleep.
__________________
Do you ever feel like your stuff strutted off without you?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 23, 2004, 03:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
I've said this before, but since you asked. . .

Going tableside is a great idea at the pro level and the D1 college level It is an ok idea at the sub-D1 college level, and it's a horrible idea for HS and below. Why?

B/c at the pro and D1 levels, every game is videotaped and if a coach goes off on an official who has to switch right in front of him/her, that coach can be held accountable (via fine or suspension) by his/her conference or league, etc. There will be video proof of the outburst and action for the official to submit to the powers-that-be.

Below that level, videotaping is spotty and that means that there is significantly less accountability for a coach that behaves inappropriately in a heated situation. All there is in many situations is the word of the coach versus the word of the official.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
I have heard several varsity coaches roll their eyes to the behavior of their JV and Freshman coaches.
Either you have great hearing, or those are some LOUD eyeballs!
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 23, 2004, 03:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias


Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
I have heard several varsity coaches roll their eyes to the behavior of their JV and Freshman coaches.
Either you have great hearing, or those are some LOUD eyeballs!
Extremely loud if you ask me.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 24, 2004, 08:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 768
i agree with you chuck

i believe it would be great for higher level officiating, but for high school i just think you are asking for trouble...
__________________
DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 24, 2004, 09:34am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,135
That is not a problem at all.

I have to disagree with whether it is appropriate for HS. I first thought it was a bad idea. But as a football official, we can be in front of an entire bench of coaches and players and trainers for several minutes and it is not a problem. Why can HS coaches control themselves in that environment and not on a basketball court? As a football wing official, you are constantly in the face of the coach and you rarely see ejections in that sport or even many flags. I do not think you take any less abuse in football, sometimes I think you take more. I agree that it might be an adjustment at first, but coaches will get the message. I would rather have a queit word with a coach than him yelling all over the court about a call that could take a simple explaination. I also think the presense of the official standing in front of the coach stops a lot of comments. I have found that coaches are afraid that the officials will react negatively to them and T them up. So they just shut up or let it go.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 24, 2004, 10:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 768
i see your point, but

football is in an open field where fans don't hear no of it, basketball is in a smaller area and the fans are right on top of everything and feed off of everything the coaches do or say... i can see both ways being positive and negative, i guess it's just something we'll have to deal with and get used to...should be fun!!!! especially with some of the h.s. coaches we have.
__________________
DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 24, 2004, 10:27am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,135
What do fans have to do with how we deal with the coaches?

You would be surprised what the fans can and cannot hear during football games. Sometimes it is easier to hear conversations in that open field than in a loud, confined place.

Trust me, everyone will get used to it and will act accordingly. I can see some officialÂ’s night liking it at first, but I know I will love the fact that when my partner calls something I will not be the one explaining his call. That will not happen nearly as much from now on because of this mechanic.

I am telling you, I had many of the same concerns at first. When I worked in summer leagues and camps and the lower level coaches acting in the head position for the varsity teams said little or nothing, I was converted. Of course that is just a sample and may not be representative of every situation, but it was clear they did not feel compelled to scream all the time. I think also it will depend on the ability of the officials to communicate and deal with conflict directly.

"Now we are going to say who can really officiate" are the words said by a D1 Officials that I know when I informed him of this change. I think all this talk about what rule you know and what to call is going to mean little if you cannot explain it to a coach that is about what you called.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 24, 2004, 10:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 768
i wouldn't know anything about what goes on with the refs at football games...i have to take care of all the jr. high basketball games during football season..

i agree totally with the part about not having to explain someone else's call...that is one of the great things about the change.....because we all know we have worked with some officials that make up stuff to call so they can blow the whistle, and then they leave you in front of the coach asking, "what in the hell was that" and you don't have a clue what to tell him...
and i liked it this summer during the aau tourney, but it will make all of us have to be better communicators out their on the floor with the coaches...some refs don't like to talk at all to the coaches and this change will make them change that attitude real fast.... i'm sure i will like it better with more games and as the coaches get used to it on the high school level..
__________________
DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 24, 2004, 11:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,592
At all my camps, it was even stated during our meetings that at least for a while, coaches will be on good behavior because they've never really had to communicate with someone so close to them and they don't really know what your tolerance level is. ALL my experiences with it this year have been great.

With that said, just to work on communication, one of our local assignors who also assigns alot of rec ball has suggested that we rotate tableside in 2 man rec ball. Should help us get extra experience with the communicating, especially with the "future D1 coaches" rec coaches.
__________________
Do you ever feel like your stuff strutted off without you?
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 24, 2004, 11:20am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 768
so i guess if you are rotating table side in 2-man, spot of violation doesn't matter to any of the teams...that would be difficult wouldn't it?????
__________________
DETERMINATION ALL BUT ERASES THE THIN LINE BETWEEN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND THE POSSIBLE!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 24, 2004, 12:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 127
People/Communication Skills Will Be the Key

My bet is that those of us with really good people skills (which is all about communication) will get along just fine going table side. Those of us who don't have good people skills (or who have a chip on our shoulders or who exhibit the Barney Fife syndrome) will struggle somewhat.
__________________
JAdams
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 24, 2004, 12:20pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,135
Re: People/Communication Skills Will Be the Key

Quote:
Originally posted by JAdams
My bet is that those of us with really good people skills (which is all about communication) will get along just fine going table side. Those of us who don't have good people skills (or who have a chip on our shoulders or who exhibit the Barney Fife syndrome) will struggle somewhat.
I did say when this change was made, Ts will go up. Because I know a lot of "Barney Fife" type officials that will do not communicating and just pull the trigger. In a way that will make the coaches more apprehensive to speak or do more thinking before they run their mouths. It will take an adjustment period, but everyone should get used to it.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1