Illegal Substitute?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Clear? A few Forum members have indicated that the rule does seem to present a "gray" area. I am not adamant that I am correct. I also think that the rule is slightly ambiguous.

I would love to see a "clear" rule, or casebook play, where the term "forced" is used to describe the writing of a name in the scorebook.

If the book had every effin situation in it needed to be clear to you (and some others) it would be 1000 pages long. Your continuous need to ask over and over and over again isn't magically going to get you the answer you want.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The answer you want.

Oh, I already got the answer that I want. A long time ago. The rule is poorly worded. Maybe the rule, by itself, is worded correctly, it's just that the casebook play needs some tinkering.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Logic has nothing to do with it. It's what the rules say.

Above quote transferred over from the Player Control Foul thread.

Wouldn't it be nice if the rule regarding a player's name being added to the book was logical?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Above quote transferred over from the Player Control Foul thread.

Wouldn't it be nice if the rule regarding a player's name being added to the book was logical?

Well, as long as your bringing trouble from the other thread... let me bring over the CE thread. (I'm interloping from the other board, but if I understand the two rules correctly this scenario creates a problem that should probably be addressed by clarifying the rule.)

B has 5 fouls when B1 fouls A1 who is not in the book. A1 is erroneously awarded one and one. He makes both and team B gets the ball. Team B inbounds and calls timeout. A6 reports to replace A1 who takes a seat on the bench. During the timeout it comes to the officials knowledge that A1 was not entitled to free throws in a) before it comes to their knowledge that A1 needs to be added to the book or in b) after it comes to their knowledge that A1 needs to be added to the book. Rulings?

[Toren]

Originally Posted by youngump

Well, as long as your bringing trouble from the other thread... let me bring over the CE thread. (I'm interloping from the other board, but if I understand the two rules correctly this scenario creates a problem that should probably be addressed by clarifying the rule.)

B has 5 fouls when B1 fouls A1 who is not in the book. A1 is erroneously awarded one and one. He makes both and team B gets the ball. Team B inbounds and calls timeout. A6 reports to replace A1 who takes a seat on the bench. During the timeout it comes to the officials knowledge that A1 was not entitled to free throws in a) before it comes to their knowledge that A1 needs to be added to the book or in b) after it comes to their knowledge that A1 needs to be added to the book. Rulings?

When does A6 enter the game? It looks like we a have a timeout before the substitution.

Situation A) I believe we're still in the CE timelimit, so we cancel out the inappropriate free throws. Then we penalize Team A for adding a player ito the book.

Ouch.

Situation B) We give a technical to Team A. Now if your question is referring to the free throws for the technical being taken first, then that would put us beyond the CE timelimit, so we would keep the free throws.

I think that's what you are asking, but I had to take liberties with the interpretation.

[BillyMac]

Since A1's free throws were erroneously taken, then there is no need to write anything in the book (points, fouls, missed free throws), so if A1 is now bench personnel, does his name have to be added to the book?

[SNIPERBBB]

Usually scorekeepers keep track of free throw attempts...

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Toren

When does A6 enter the game? It looks like we a have a timeout before the substitution.

Situation A) I believe we're still in the CE timelimit, so we cancel out the inappropriate free throws. Then we penalize Team A for adding a player ito the book.

Ouch.

Situation B) We give a technical to Team A. Now if your question is referring to the free throws for the technical being taken first, then that would put us beyond the CE timelimit, so we would keep the free throws.

I think that's what you are asking, but I had to take liberties with the interpretation.

BillyMac may have made this clear below, but the point of the example is that A6 enters the game before any of the fun starts. Hence, the case play applies unless you need to add A1 for some other reason. But A1 didn't score if the free throws don't count.