Advice on how to handle mouthy players

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Because I'm not going to let the players change the way I'm officiating. Targeting a player isn't the answer, just tell him to stop. If he doesn't, call the T. Obvious, simple, and effective.

Who says I am changing my officiating? I'm not, I'm just making suree I see all I need to see with certain players....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Who says I am changing my officiating? I'm not, I'm just making suree I see all I need to see with certain players....

A spade is still a spade.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A spade is still a spade.

I don't see what poker has to do with the discussion.

[zm1283]

While we're on the subject of captain's meetings....

We're in the second week of the season, and there is one thing that I can't stand my partners saying during their captains meeting: "Listen to us and we'll try to talk you out of fouls". For one, a foul is a foul and if you call them for illegal contact they will adjust or be on the bench. Secondly, if a coach hears that and then you call what he perceives to be a ticky tack foul early in the game, he has ammunition. He can say "But you said you were going to talk them out of fouls".

That phrase just bugs me and I never say it during my captain's meeting. I've also had a few partners give rules clinics during the meeting too...that's always fun.

Mine includes telling them that they're all captains and all in charge of their teams (I don't get "speaking captains" like every other person in my group), so keep them in line so we don't have to, and remind them to show good sportsmanship. It lasts 20 seconds tops.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by zm1283

He can say "But you said you were going to talk them out of fouls". That phrase just bugs me and I never say it during my captain's meeting. I've also had a few partners give rules clinics during the meeting too...that's always fun. Mine includes telling them that they're all captains and all in charge of their teams (I don't get "speaking captains" like every other person in my group), so keep them in line so we don't have to, and remind them to show good sportsmanship. It lasts 20 seconds tops.

Agree. The less said, the better. I keep my topics limited to the three that the NFHS requires me to cover, and one that my local board requires me to cover (Players properly equipped, Players wearing uniforms properly, Practice good sportsmanship, Adhere to the restrictions, as well as the privileges, of the coaching box). Four topics. End of discussion.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A spade is still a spade.

Naw, wrong phrase. Try "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Quick Q BTW, why should Compliner A screw up the game for everyone else by his continued complaining? Sometimes a simple foul call or two puts things in perspective for him, where coaches and captains can't in my experience.

[Ignats75]

TWo things here from my perspective. First, I had an oldtimer tell me when I was taking the course to become a referree, "When you get to the high school level, you might want to give coaches some lee-way. That's OK. But don't give the little *******s an inch." A bit of a crumudgeon, but a bisic philosophy I have followed ever since.

I too, address it at our captain's meeting. If I am the R this is my entire speech:

"Gentlemen (or ladies). You have been chosen as captains for your leadership ability. You know who your hotheads are. If you handle them, we won't have to. I only have four rules for you. Respect the game. Respect your opponent, respect the officials and have fun. Good Luck."

If they don't know the black line is out of bounds or we are going to blow the whistle if the ball touches a support wire, they are too stupid to remember it during the game anyway. So why waste the time.

Also, as an aside (HiJack warning), I never ask for speaking captains. If I have three co-captains there I want them all working on the sportsmanship issues and with me. No need to diminish the role of two of them. I'm sure there are many who will disagree with this and I understand. My mentor was the one who gave me that advice and it made sense. Sometimes, common sense is the default way to go.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. The less said, the better. I keep my topics limited to the three that the NFHS requires me to cover, and one that my local board requires me to cover (Players properly equipped, Players wearing uniforms properly, Practice good sportsmanship, Adhere to the restrictions, as well as the privileges, of the coaching box). Four topics. End of discussion.

I will usually throw this in there too. Most of the time I just remind them to keep their jerseys tucked in. I don't usually say anything about the coaching box, but if I've never had a team before, I'll remind the coaches to communicate with us on timeouts.

[Ignats75]

Our local custom is to have the captains meeting at 12 and the coaches at 2:30

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Our local custom is to have the captains meeting at 12 and the coaches at 2:30

That wouldn't work here. Start times are at 7:30.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I too, address it at our captain's meeting. If I am the R this is my entire speech:

"Gentlemen (or ladies). You have been chosen as captains for your leadership ability. You know who your hotheads are. If you handle them, we won't have to. I only have four rules for you. Respect the game. Respect your opponent, respect the officials and have fun. Good Luck."

I like this! Might just give it a try...

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I too, address it at our captain's meeting. If I am the R this is my entire speech:

"Gentlemen (or ladies). You have been chosen as captains for your leadership ability. You know who your hotheads are. If you handle them, we won't have to. I only have four rules for you. Respect the game. Respect your opponent, respect the officials and have fun. Good Luck."

While I understand what you are saying (excuse me, I get paid to look at things this way), how are any of those measurable? If you were to say something about sportsmanship and they didn't follow it, you can call a technical foul. If they showed disrespect for you, their opponents or the game, how are you going to enforce it? Yes, it would probably fall into the sportsmanship category which means you could simply say something about...sportsmanship and be done with it. Chances are they aren't listening anyway.

As far as some of the other posts go, I don't think we should tolerate anything from kids. Our instructional chair - a fine gentleman - tells us that we can find 10 players that want to play on any given night. The others will either be eliminated systematically (5 fouls) or immediately (1 technical/flagrant foul).

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by tomegun

how are any of those measurable?

Via definitions.

I stated earlier that I would add "imperative sentences" to the list of T-able offenses. I believe that's pretty clear cut. We should never tolerate orders from anyone on the floor.

Others have used profanity and other defined terms. Granted, there are variances among some of us as to what meets these terms, but for the most part, our general knowledge (particularly in your bit of Rome) knows what they mean.

There's also good ol' "common sense," a term that sometimes makes me cringe, because some people use it when they really mean, "how come everyone doesn't think like I do?" The reality is, though, common sense plays a big role in what we do. Some of the best officials I know embrace this concept.

Nearly everything in this game is defined. Was control met here? Did he travel there? We use our definitions as our measuring sticks, and it also plays a role in what we find T-able, too.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Via definitions.

OK, let me try again by putting this in the form of a statement instead of a question. While I do believe that there is a time and a place for what I would consider motivational conversation, the statement I was asking about means nothing to players when they are about to play a game. If someone violates one of those "respects" the official has no rule reference or penalty to use. Furthermore, my common sense tells me that most actions that can be related to these "respects" would really be unsporting acts. So - I'm going to use my common sense again - why not just say something about sportsmanship and be done? Maybe not as memorable or quotable, but simpler.

I can see it now..."Technical foul on blue forty two for not respecting his opponent." Now does that make (common) sense?

Having said all of that, a respect speech may fit the person who posted it's personality. But for someone else to say they are going to use it because is sounds good may not work.