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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 02:09pm
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too many quarters in one night

After the 3rd quarter A6 tried to sub in for A5 before the 4th quarter started but he reported after the 15 second warning buzzer. The officials wouldn't let him enter the game of course. Then team A explained to the refs that A5 must exit the game because he has already played his 5 quarters that are allowed in one night. The refs decided that they can't overlook this infraction and required A5 to start the 4th quarter. The refs surely knew that at another date that this game would be declared a forfeit. Was the right decision made or should the refs overlooked this minor infraction so that A5 would not have gone over the quarter limit and cause a forfeit?
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 02:17pm
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As a general statement, officials are not responsible for this type of "eligibility" issue. So, I think they did the right thing.

In SOME areas, this type of issue might supercede the substitution issue. Someone from southern IN (or tell us where, if it didn't happen there) might be able to help.
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 02:19pm
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I dont think we should get involved with player eligibility/restrictions...
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 02:28pm
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It did happen in southern Indiana
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 02:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
I dont think we should get involved with player eligibility/restrictions...
An interested and likely available individual might be the athletic director. They're always up on those things, and he/she would be a good one to pawn this one off on.
(last sentence ending with a preposition--something up with which the grammatical intellectuals of this forum rarely put)
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 03:07pm
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I agree that eligibility rules are not in our jurisdiction. In southern IN, conferences sometimes have more stringent rules than the IHSAA. So it is very difficult to know all of the restrictions.

According to the IHSAA; a student "plays" a quarter when the student enters a game and time is run off the clock.

So I guess coach could have called a TO and subbed the player out before any time ran off the clock.
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 03:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzibar View Post
After the 3rd quarter A6 tried to sub in for A5 before the 4th quarter started but he reported after the 15 second warning buzzer. The officials wouldn't let him enter the game of course. Then team A explained to the refs that A5 must exit the game because he has already played his 5 quarters that are allowed in one night. The refs decided that they can't overlook this infraction and required A5 to start the 4th quarter. The refs surely knew that at another date that this game would be declared a forfeit. Was the right decision made or should the refs overlooked this minor infraction so that A5 would not have gone over the quarter limit and cause a forfeit?
The officials enforced the rules as they know them. Surely the coach knew his player had used up his eligibility and should have been more diligent in his oversight of the situation.

Of course, a simple solution would have been for the coach to request a time-out and then sub A5 out of the game.
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 04:04pm
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Originally Posted by Scratch85 View Post
I agree that eligibility rules are not in our jurisdiction. In southern IN, conferences sometimes have more stringent rules than the IHSAA. So it is very difficult to know all of the restrictions.

According to the IHSAA; a student "plays" a quarter when the student enters a game and time is run off the clock.

So I guess coach could have called a TO and subbed the player out before any time ran off the clock.
So, what if A5, who is on the bench, is subbed in to shoot free throws for a Technical foul and then is replaced by A6? Even though the clock has not started. The ball becomes live twice and A5 has a chance to score 2 points.
Also in Missouri, a player can play in 6 quarters. As an official, we are not suppose to counts quarters. This is an Administrative issue.
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 04:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzibar View Post
After the 3rd quarter A6 tried to sub in for A5 before the 4th quarter started but he reported after the 15 second warning buzzer. The officials wouldn't let him enter the game of course. Then team A explained to the refs that A5 must exit the game because he has already played his 5 quarters that are allowed in one night. The refs decided that they can't overlook this infraction and required A5 to start the 4th quarter. The refs surely knew that at another date that this game would be declared a forfeit. Was the right decision made or should the refs overlooked this minor infraction so that A5 would not have gone over the quarter limit and cause a forfeit?

The OhioHSAA has a five quarter per day rule (with a maximum of ninety quarters for the regular season).

As an example, two schools are playing a FR/JV/VAR tripleheader. An player can player a total of five quarters for the three games: one quarter in the FR game, three quarters in the JV game and one quarter in the VAR game. The Scorekeepr must keep track of the number of quarters each player plays in each game. If a player is found to be playing in his sixth quarter for the night, he is disqualified (his disqualification is treated in the same way as if a player had fouled out of the game) from playing for the rest of the day, and his sixth quarter counts toward his ninety maximum for the regular season.

If the situation being discussed happened in Ohio, it would be treated in the same manner if the officials had been told by the Scorekeeper that he just discovered that A5 had five fouls and is disqualified. Replace A5 and move on.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. In my opinion, the officials were being hard a$$e$ about that matter, meaning Team A could have requested a Team TO in order to replace A5.
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 04:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
So, what if A5, who is on the bench, is subbed in to shoot free throws for a Technical foul and then is replaced by A6? Even though the clock has not started. The ball becomes live twice and A5 has a chance to score 2 points.
Also in Missouri, a player can play in 6 quarters. As an official, we are not suppose to counts quarters. This is an Administrative issue.
Then A5 has played in the 4th quarter. What happens to him after that is not our concern.
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 04:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch85 View Post
I agree that eligibility rules are not in our jurisdiction. In southern IN, conferences sometimes have more stringent rules than the IHSAA. So it is very difficult to know all of the restrictions.

According to the IHSAA; a student "plays" a quarter when the student enters a game and time is run off the clock.

So I guess coach could have called a TO and subbed the player out before any time ran off the clock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
So, what if A5, who is on the bench, is subbed in to shoot free throws for a Technical foul and then is replaced by A6? Even though the clock has not started. The ball becomes live twice and A5 has a chance to score 2 points.
Also in Missouri, a player can play in 6 quarters. As an official, we are not suppose to counts quarters. This is an Administrative issue.
All I know is that those are the exact words as written in the IHSAA Articles of Incorporation.
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 04:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zanzibar View Post
After the 3rd quarter A6 tried to sub in for A5 before the 4th quarter started but he reported after the 15 second warning buzzer. The officials wouldn't let him enter the game of course. Then team A explained to the refs that A5 must exit the game because he has already played his 5 quarters that are allowed in one night. The refs decided that they can't overlook this infraction and required A5 to start the 4th quarter. The refs surely knew that at another date that this game would be declared a forfeit. Was the right decision made or should the refs overlooked this minor infraction so that A5 would not have gone over the quarter limit and cause a forfeit?
Usually these type of equal participation rules exist in youth games - for example, 10 or 11 and under.

Why not just do what we do here in Ontario - have players report to the scorekeeper at the beginning of each quarter. If a player report that is ineligible, then the mistake is caught and corrected before they step on the court. Once this process is complete, then sound the 15s horn.

Problem solved.
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 04:48pm
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Not that big a deal to me

Maybe, like a discussion topic a few weeks back, this player is no longer available, as in he may be injured, or has fouled out. You can't force him to play, you can't let the team begin the next quarter with only four players (if others are available) I say you let the next guy in even if he was late to the table. No sense making a problem for others to clean up later or even hurting the kid down the road. If in this particular state this practice is recognized, (I'm assuming the extra quarters are coming from JV action seen) then a little leniency is in order here and I sure hope the opposing coach isn't going to put up much objection.
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 05:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letemplay View Post
Maybe, like a discussion topic a few weeks back, this player is no longer available, as in he may be injured, or has fouled out. You can't force him to play, you can't let the team begin the next quarter with only four players (if others are available) I say you let the next guy in even if he was late to the table. No sense making a problem for others to clean up later or even hurting the kid down the road. If in this particular state this practice is recognized, (I'm assuming the extra quarters are coming from JV action seen) then a little leniency is in order here and I sure hope the opposing coach isn't going to put up much objection.
I say the coach needs to take a time-out to make the substitution legal and in the future do HIS job better instead of putting the onus on the officials to clean up his mistake.
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Old Tue Nov 29, 2011, 05:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
So, what if A5, who is on the bench, is subbed in to shoot free throws for a Technical foul and then is replaced by A6? Even though the clock has not started. The ball becomes live twice and A5 has a chance to score 2 points.
Also in Missouri, a player can play in 6 quarters. As an official, we are not suppose to counts quarters. This is an Administrative issue.
I think the actual criteria for playing should be that the ball became live, not that the clock ran....of course, should be and is are not always the same.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 05:13pm.
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