IPAD on the Bench

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again you fail to listen to what people say here.

Not everyone uses that book or even knows it exists. The only people that consistently know it exists are officials that would get the book sent to them through their association or state organization. In my state, we do not even belong to the NF from an officiating point of view so what that book says means nothing to me or us in this state. We have Terms and Conditions that our state must follow and this has nothing to do with the NF and their standards. And things like when officials are to come onto the court and what is expected from game management. Also I am not talking about just varsity games, I am talking about those Saturday Morning games where the JV is playing or some Freshman B game is going on and often the people that run table are high school kids that often are paying more attention to their cell phone and texting than the game or what we are asking them to record. And that is the way it is as we do not tell them who can or who cannot work their table from a hiring point of view. And even if we get some adult, they are often not affiliated directly with the school, but are parents and they often are more worried about little Johnny or little Suzie is doing on the court than paying attention to us. Even with the best pre-games we often get the "Well I have been doing this for XX years and I know what I am doing." But the first situation comes up because they were not paying attention nor had no idea what things they were to keep track of. So please stop telling us what that stupid book says when I bet most states that even use that manual probably never distribute that to their schools for this kinds of duties and instructions.



And that is two more times than should be requested. Imagine some kid that wants to text his girlfriend or reading emails on their Smartphone than knowing when the clock starts properly.



It is hard enough that you admitted you had to reset the clock 2 a game and where I know every college game we have at least one clock issue and it involves the shot clock as well. And I learned long time ago how to pay attention to the game clock and how it relates to the shot clock and we still have problems. Sorry, I think HS needs to stay away from this, at least where I live. Too many schools and too many problems now, I do not want to add to that by using something that if incorrect could affect possessions to a team. Not even teams hold the ball and this is not much of an issue anyway.

Peace

To be fair, he said twice a season. To me, that's a pretty damned good job. Running a shot clock isn't easy.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

To be fair, he said twice a season. To me, that's a pretty damned good job. Running a shot clock isn't easy.

Well I am averaging twice a game at the college level to get simple mistakes like resetting the clock on a simply out of bounds or resetting the clock when the ball did not even hit the rim. And this is with partners that are very experience and probably go to more camps than the average official. Like BNR said, I would be terrified with all the HS officials that cannot concentrate hard enough to get the current rules right that are easier to follow.

Peace

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again you fail to listen to what people say here.

Not everyone uses that book or even knows it exists. The only people that consistently know it exists are officials that would get the book sent to them through their association or state organization. In my state, we do not even belong to the NF from an officiating point of view so what that book says means nothing to me or us in this state. We have Terms and Conditions that our state must follow and this has nothing to do with the NF and their standards. And things like when officials are to come onto the court and what is expected from game management. Also I am not talking about just varsity games, I am talking about those Saturday Morning games where the JV is playing or some Freshman B game is going on and often the people that run table are high school kids that often are paying more attention to their cell phone and texting than the game or what we are asking them to record. And that is the way it is as we do not tell them who can or who cannot work their table from a hiring point of view. And even if we get some adult, they are often not affiliated directly with the school, but are parents and they often are more worried about little Johnny or little Suzie is doing on the court than paying attention to us. Even with the best pre-games we often get the "Well I have been doing this for XX years and I know what I am doing." But the first situation comes up because they were not paying attention nor had no idea what things they were to keep track of. So please stop telling us what that stupid book says when I bet most states that even use that manual probably never distribute that to their schools for this kinds of duties and instructions.



And that is two more times than should be requested. Imagine some kid that wants to text his girlfriend or reading emails on their Smartphone than knowing when the clock starts properly.



It is hard enough that you admitted you had to reset the clock 2 a game and where I know every college game we have at least one clock issue and it involves the shot clock as well. And I learned long time ago how to pay attention to the game clock and how it relates to the shot clock and we still have problems. Sorry, I think HS needs to stay away from this, at least where I live. Too many schools and too many problems now, I do not want to add to that by using something that if incorrect could affect possessions to a team. Not even teams hold the ball and this is not much of an issue anyway.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well I am averaging twice a game at the college level to get simple mistakes like resetting the clock on a simply out of bounds or resetting the clock when the ball did not even hit the rim. And this is with partners that are very experience and probably go to more camps than the average official. Like BNR said, I would be terrified with all the HS officials that cannot concentrate hard enough to get the current rules right that are easier to follow.

Peace

How often in your games do you have good rapport with the table personnel?

I maintain communication as timer to the shot clock to mention about ball being in play, ball off rim, change of team control, and other factors that do need to be considered for shot clock operations.

Those times when, as shot clock operator, I do err it is because of not having clear view of play or I saw something differently than what the floor officials saw however I immediately make the change requested.

It's a shame not everyone involved game management wise does not have a copy of the appendices of the Officials' Manual as those suggestions/recommendations have been helpful to me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by chseagle

How often in your games do you have good rapport with the table personnel?

What the heck does this have to do with anything? I am not going on a date, I am working a game. And not being the Referee I have very little interaction with them at all.

Originally Posted by chseagle

It's a shame not everyone involved game management wise does not have a copy of the appendices of the Officials' Manual as those suggestions/recommendations have been helpful to me.

Good for you, but as stated before not everyone uses them or gets them or even knows this book exists. None of this information means anything anyway if the people working have no clue what they are doing.

Peace

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What the heck does this have to do with anything? I am not going on a date, I am working a game. And not being the Referee I have very little interaction with them at all.



Good for you, but as stated before not everyone uses them or gets them or even knows this book exists. None of this information means anything anyway if the people working have no clue what they are doing.

Peace

Good rapport between table & floor officials: all are there to ensure the game goes smoothly as to game management. Clear communication is available.

If the information in the appendices were read and followed, there would be less chance of those working table being clueless.

I didn't even post anything under 4.0.3 Training the Table Officials which is what you're saying is irrelevant. It would become relevant if it was followed.

[chseagle]

Back on topic:

How often do you see bench personnel with a computer/tablet during the game?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Good rapport between table & floor officials: all are there to ensure the game goes smoothly as to game management. Clear communication is available.

If the information in the appendices were read and followed, there would be less chance of those working table being clueless.

I didn't even post anything under 4.0.3 Training the Table Officials which is what you're saying is irrelevant. It would become relevant if it was followed.

You're talking out of your a$$. There are thousands and thousands of high schools across this country, which means there's tens of thousands of table officials. We run into incompetent table officials more often than you can possibly imagine. You can have all the "good rapport" in the world and and print all the appendices you want. It's not going to prevent Mary Jo Trainee Honey from texting her boyfriend when she should be paying attention to the game.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You're talking out of your a$$. There are thousands and thousands of high schools across this country, which means there's tens of thousands of table officials. We run into incompetent table officials more often than you can possibly imagine. You can have all the "good rapport" in the world and and print all the appendices you want. It's not going to prevent Mary Jo Trainee Honey from texting her boyfriend when she should be paying attention to the game.

Nowhere did I state it would be a foolproof solution.

I've been able to cease cell phone activity at the table before, it's not that hard to do if it is enforced that those working table must have their full focus on the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Good rapport between table & floor officials: all are there to ensure the game goes smoothly as to game management. Clear communication is available.

If the information in the appendices were read and followed, there would be less chance of those working table being clueless.

I didn't even post anything under 4.0.3 Training the Table Officials which is what you're saying is irrelevant. It would become relevant if it was followed.

What are you living in, Fantasy land? No one gives a darn about rapport with people that still do not know how to do their job.

I do not care what the damn book says if the people you claim should read it have no idea what that is. Just like many coaches do not know what a rulebook looks like, I think even less table people even know what an Official's Manual is, let alone what the NF is. Do you know how many cheat sheets or guidelines many of has seen over the years. I even know officials that give the table a little sheet to cover guidelines and they still screw up basic stuff. Again if table people would not screw up basic stuff like the darn possession arrow, then maybe I would have more faith in their ability to start and stop a clock appropriately outside of the game clock. You cannot be that ignit can you?

Peace

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What are you living in, Fantasy land? No one gives a darn about rapport with people that still do not know how to do their job.

I do not care what the damn book says if the people you claim should read it have no idea what that is. Just like many coaches do not know what a rulebook looks like, I think even less table people even know what an Official's Manual is, let alone what the NF is. Do you know how many cheat sheets or guidelines many of has seen over the years. I even know officials that give the table a little sheet to cover guidelines and they still screw up basic stuff. Again if table people would not screw up basic stuff like the darn possession arrow, then maybe I would have more faith in their ability to start and stop a clock appropriately outside of the game clock. You cannot be that ignit can you?

Peace

Did no one get my message about going back on topic concerning iPads being present on the bench?