You Make The Call

[NoFear2020]

Originally Posted by tref

Arent we all!

I'll try to do you one better, how about the rule as written?

4-23-4
Guarding an opponent with the ball or a stationary opponent without the ball:

b. If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor.

Like Ragu... it's in there!


It sounds like your problem with understading the rule lies here:



Took off = Alight
Defender must obtain LGP prior to this.

Act of shooting = Gather
Defender can obtain LGP here OR before the shooter "takes off" & may move to maintain LGP during the act of shooting.

I'm sure you've seen a "set-shot" before? They never "take off" or alight but they still are in the "act of shooting" at some point.

On block/charge plays if we punch it, continuous motion is out the window & LGP is all that applies. If we block it, continuous motion applies because LGP obviously wasn't established.

To me its one or the other, we need not combine these rules to come to a decision.

An airborne opponent with the ball might not be an airborne shooter.
An airborne shooter has protection from the start of the shot and this might be some distance away, our view has to be wide enough to see where A1 starts/gathers the ball and what B1 is doing, here we need to know if B1 has LGP or not.

[APG]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

An airborne opponent with the ball might not be an airborne shooter.
An airborne shooter has protection from the start of the shot and this might be some distance away, our view has to be wide enough to see where A1 starts/gathers the ball and what B1 is doing, here we need to know if B1 has LGP or not.

You do realize you're the only one who's supporting this position. You should probably rethink your position when everyone in the thread has disagreed with you. Literally no one has even come close to supporting your interpretation.

No rule set requires a defender to get a legal position prior to gathering the ball. None. No matter how much you try to combine or misinterpret rules...heck, even in the NBA, where a defender has to be there slightly earlier than under NF/NCAA rules, they require the defender to be there prior to the upward motion of the offensive player. If we followed your interpretation of the rule, there would be almost no charges on plays to the basket.

[NoFear2020]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

You do realize you're the only one who's supporting this position. You should probably rethink your position when everyone in the thread has disagreed with you. Literally no one has even come close to supporting your interpretation.

No rule set requires a defender to get a legal position prior to gathering the ball. None. No matter how much you try to combine or misinterpret rules...heck, even in the NBA, where a defender has to be there slightly earlier than under NF/NCAA rules, they require the defender to be there prior to the upward motion of the offensive player. If we followed your interpretation of the rule, there would be almost no charges on plays to the basket.

So are you calling a player control foul on this play?

[APG]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

So are you calling a player control foul on this play?

No, I'm calling a block because I had lateral movement by the defender AFTER the player was airborne...like I stated in my first post.

[NoFear2020]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

No, I'm calling a block because I had lateral movement by the defender AFTER the player was airborne...like I stated in my first post.

At least you got the call right!

[tref]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

An airborne opponent with the ball might not be an airborne shooter.An airborne shooter has protection from the start of the shot and this might be some distance away, our view has to be wide enough to see where A1 starts/gathers the ball and what B1 is doing, here we need to know if B1 has LGP or not.

Most definitely, I understand this fact. Thats why the rules-makers made it broad! It applies to an airborne opponent that shoots, passes, rebounds or catches a pass. The defender cannot slide under the airborne player, defense must be there prior to the offense alighting.

Block/Charges plays to the basket rarely happen instantaneously upon the gather & usually doesn't involve the primary defender. Usually there's at least a stride prior to crashing (if you're lucky ) in between that gather & stride is where the primary defender reaches in & hits the arm or whatever. At this point LGP is out the door & continuous motion applies.

True, we need to know when the ball is gathered & the legality of the defender at this point. But from the time of the gather & crash there will most likely be some contact that takes LGP by a 2ndary defender out of the equation.

[NoFear2020]

Originally Posted by tref

Most definitely, I understand this fact. Thats why the rules-makers made it broad! It applies to an airborne opponent that shoots, passes, rebounds or catches a pass. The defender cannot slide under the airborne player, defense must be there prior to the offense alighting.

Block/Charges plays to the basket rarely happen instantaneously upon the gather & usually doesn't involve the primary defender. Usually there's at least a stride prior to crashing (if you're lucky ) in between that gather & stride is where the primary defender reaches in & hits the arm or whatever. At this point LGP is out the door & continuous motion applies.

True, we need to know when the ball is gathered & the legality of the defender at this point. But from the time of the gather & crash there will most likely be some contact that takes LGP by a 2ndary defender out of the equation.

Airborne shooters are afforded protection under rule 4-41