Comminication is KEY

[bkiledad]

Outside of better communication is there any other solution to this situtation?

Tie ball game, 30 seconds to go. The lead official calls a foul against the defense on a rebound/tap situation. As center, I wasn't sure if it was going to be a 2-shot foul or just a 1 and 1, but I went to get the shooter regardless. When my partner turned, he signaled for 2 shots. I told the shooter and rebounders that we had 2 shots at least twice and then bounced the ball. Of course, he missed the first one. As I was going to retrieve the ball, one of the shooter's teammates rebounded it and layed it up and in as the defense remained stationary.

My partner who had called the foul came in to inform me that it was supposed to be a 1 and 1, so the basket had to count. Is this right? Is there any other way to resolve the situation?

[JRutledge]

You awarded FTs that were not suppose to be taken. You told the FTer and the other players that you were shooting two. That was obviously incorrect, so you do it all over again using the Correctable error procedure. You seem to notice it before the next dead ball, so you have not run out of time to correct it.

But your partner did you know favors on this at all. You just repeated his ruling or at least what he told you before the FTs.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

...how many times have we told you not to answer rules based questions!

This is not a correctable error situation. The only FT that was shot was merited. This is an official's error. The official's error clearly put one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be blown dead immediately and resumed using the alternating-possession procedure.

Please, please don't answer rules questions. You're clueless!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bkiledad
Outside of better communication is there any other solution to this situtation?

Tie ball game, 30 seconds to go. The lead official calls a foul against the defense on a rebound/tap situation. As center, I wasn't sure if it was going to be a 2-shot foul or just a 1 and 1, but I went to get the shooter regardless. When my partner turned, he signaled for 2 shots. I told the shooter and rebounders that we had 2 shots at least twice and then bounced the ball. Of course, he missed the first one. As I was going to retrieve the ball, one of the shooter's teammates rebounded it and layed it up and in as the defense remained stationary.

My partner who had called the foul came in to inform me that it was supposed to be a 1 and 1, so the basket had to count. Is this right? Is there any other way to resolve the situation?

Cancel the basket by the shooter's teammate,and go with the AP procedure. See casebook play 8.6.1.

[Blackhawk357]

OK, I think we got this one figured out.
Here is another question:

Turn the situation around..... You tell the players it's 1&1 when it should be 2. If B rebounds the ball, is that considered a change of possession for the purpose of deciding which correction procedure you will use in the correction?

(i.e. Stop play, clear lane, shoot, resume play vs. line 'um up and shoot)

What if A rebounds? ~ In both, error is recognized within time restrictions. I'll give my opinion after some discussion.

Blackhawk

[BktBallRef]

2.10.1b

In the original play, only one FT was merited and only one was awarded. When you turn it around, as you did, it becomes a CE.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Blackhawk357

Turn the situation around..... You tell the players it's 1&1 when it should be 2. If B rebounds the ball, is that considered a change of possession for the purpose of deciding which correction procedure you will use in the correction?

(i.e. Stop play, clear lane, shoot, resume play vs. line 'um up and shoot)

What if A rebounds? ~ In both, error is recognized within time restrictions. I'll give my opinion after some discussion.

Unlike the play above,this one is a correctible error situation--R2-10-1(a)-"failure to award a merited free throw".All you have to remember is that if you want to legally correct this error,the error has to be recognized during the period up to and including the first dead ball after the clock has started.Anything that happens up to the time that you recognize the error(points scored,time consumed,etc)isn't nullified.If there was a change in possession on the missed FT,you go with the POI after you shoot the 2nd FT.If there was no change in possession,you line 'em up for the 2nd FT.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
...how many times have we told you not to answer rules based questions!

This is not a correctable error situation. The only FT that was shot was merited. This is an official's error. The official's error clearly put one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be blown dead immediately and resumed using the alternating-possession procedure.

Please, please don't answer rules questions. You're clueless!!

Yes this is a correctable error situation. They awarded the wrong kind of FT. The players were told that it was two instead of 1 and 1. The players reacted based on wrong information. If the information was given properly, then it would not have mattered. This could not be in my eyes any kind of AP, because the information was given incorrectly by the officials. This clearly was noticed before a dead ball and should be corrected under the correctable error situation. This would only be an AP situation if the officials told them it was a 1 and 1 and the players reacted the way they did. I think you need to go back and read the entire situation or show a casebook reference that specifically addresses this sitaution. But of course you cannot so whatelse should I expect.

This cannot be an AP situation with the officials screwing this up and giving improper information. No casebook support for your application that I see.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Yes this is a correctable error situation. They awarded the wrong kind of FT. The players were told that it was two instead of 1 and 1. The players reacted based on wrong information. If the information was given properly, then it would not have mattered. This could not be in my eyes any kind of AP, because the information was given incorrectly by the officials. This clearly was noticed before a dead ball and should be corrected under the correctable error situation. This would only be an AP situation if the officials told them it was a 1 and 1 and the players reacted the way they did. I think you need to go back and read the entire situation or show a casebook reference that specifically addresses this sitaution. But of course you cannot so whatelse should I expect.

This cannot be an AP situation with the officials screwing this up and giving improper information. No casebook support for your application that I see.

Peace

Did you miss my post? It is NOT one of the five correctible errors,and the play IS covered explicitly in the casebook under 8.6.1(b)!!!

[BktBallRef]

Hang on, Jurassic. I'll copy and paste the play for him, since ge doesn't have a case book. Not that it ill do any good.

Rut, please note that the parts in boldface are exactly the play posted in the original post.

OFFICIALS PROVIDE ERRONEOUS INFORMATION
*8.6.1 SITUATION:

A1 is about to attempt the first of a one-and-one free-throw situation. The administering official steps in and erroneously informs players that two shots will be taken. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful. The missed shot is rebounded by: (a) B1, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw; (b) A2, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw; or (c) B2, with several players from both teams attempting to secure the rebound. The officials recognize their error at this point. Ruling: In (a) and (b), the official's error clearly put one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be blown dead immediately and resumed using the alternating-possession procedure. In (c), both teams made an attempt to rebound despite the official's error and had an equal opportunity to gain possession of the rebound. Play should continue.

It doesn't get any clearer than that.

[canuckrefguy]

Sorry Rut.

Had this happen to me about a week ago, went with the AP. Crappy communication on my part, with a partner I wasn't familiar with. Fortunately did not decide the game as it was just shy of a blowout.

There is a clear difference between awarding/not awarding merited free throws, and us screwing up a 2-shot/1-and-1 situation. That is why the correctable error rule is written the way it is.

[Dan_ref]

It ain't Shakespeare but I still think it's pretty good. Enjoy!



I could while away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain

I'd unravel any riddle
For any individ'le
In trouble or in pain

(Dorothy)
With the thoughts you'd be thinkin'
You could be another Lincoln
If you only had a brain

(Scarecrow)
Oh, I would tell you why
The ocean's near the shore
I could think of things I never thunk before
And then I'd sit and think some more

I would not be just a nuffin'
My head all full of stuffin'
My heart all full of pain
I would dance and be merry
Life would be a ding-a-derry
If I only had a brain

[BktBallRef]

[JRutledge]

What was reported to the table?

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
It ain't Shakespeare but I still think it's pretty good. Enjoy!

Beautiful,Slappy! I watched that with my 4yr old granddaughter just last week.I got a tape of it,and she asks me about once a month to play it for her.It's one of her 3 favorite movies-the other two being ET and Scary Movie2.