NFHS case play list?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

I believe coming off the bench to participate in a EOG situation & affecting the opponents opportunity to tie the game, in it & of itself is unsporting.

If flagrant, it would have to be a flagrant personal (live ball) not technical. I dont see merely knocking down a shooter ever being a flagrant foul as it has nothing to do with violent or savage acts.

Yes, it is a live ball but it is not really a contact foul. Contact fouls are committed by players. ANYTHING a non-player does is a technical foul.

And, it doesn't have to be violent or savage when we're talking about T's...just a extreme or gross unsporting misbehavior.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yes, it is a live ball but it is not really a contact foul. Contact fouls are committed by players. ANYTHING a non-player does is a technical foul.

And, it doesn't have to be violent or savage when we're talking about T's...just a extreme or gross unsporting misbehavior.

Hmmm. If a bench player enters the game during a live ball, isn't that player now a legal player? 3-3-3

OTOH, once you see that player enter, you've got a dead ball due to a technical foul, and thus any contact after that is dead ball contact and this entire half of the thread is moot.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Hmmm. If a bench player enters the game during a live ball, isn't that player now a legal player? 3-3-3

No, the definition of a player is one of the five team members LEGALLY on the court during playing time. A team member entering illegally wouldn't meet that standard.

What you are referring to is the provision that makes a team member a legal player once the ball becomes live, if there had been some sort of illegal substitution during a dead ball period.

It is two very different situations and 3-3-3 is only applicable to the latter.

[Adam]

It's definitely not written for this situation, and the way it's written leaves some potential holes, IMO.

Situation 1:
Official counts 5 for each team and administers the throw-in. After about 30 seconds of action, A6 commits a PC/charging foul.

Table informs the official that A6 had entered during live play immediately prior to receiving the pass.

Was he a legal player? What sort of foul do you charge?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It's definitely not written for this situation, and the way it's written leaves some potential holes, IMO.

Situation 1:
Official counts 5 for each team and administers the throw-in. After about 30 seconds of action, A6 commits a PC/charging foul.

Table informs the official that A6 had entered during live play immediately prior to receiving the pass.

Was he a legal player? What sort of foul do you charge?

Not a legal player as each team may only have FIVE legal players at any one time. So this is a technical foul. I would ignore the play itself and simply charge the team T for having more than five team members participating.

BTW that very rule and T demonstrates the inability of trying to apply your citation to such situations. If the ball of dead for a throw-in and then play was restarted with one team having six on the court, your citation would make them all legal players. That cannot be the case.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not a legal player as each team may only have FIVE legal players at any one time. So this is a technical foul. I would ignore the play itself and simply charge the team T for having more than five team members participating.

BTW that very rule and T demonstrates the inability of trying to apply your citation to such situations. If the ball of dead for a throw-in and then play was restarted with one team having six on the court, your citation would make them all legal players. That cannot be the case.

Okay, let's assume A5 leaves the court and sits on the bench because he happened to be closest to the bench and realized A6 had come onto the court. When, if ever, does A6 become legal?

Or, an alternative.

Following a multiple substitution, the official miscounts and A begins the play with 4 players. A6 jumps in mid-play, catches the pass, and runs over B1. As the official reports the PC foul, the table informs him that A6 did not enter legally. Was A6 ever a legal player?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It's definitely not written for this situation, and the way it's written leaves some potential holes, IMO.

Situation 1:
Official counts 5 for each team and administers the throw-in. After about 30 seconds of action, A6 commits a PC/charging foul.

Table informs the official that A6 had entered during live play immediately prior to receiving the pass.

Was he a legal player? What sort of foul do you charge?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not a legal player as each team may only have FIVE legal players at any one time. So this is a technical foul. I would ignore the play itself and simply charge the team T for having more than five team members participating.

BTW that very rule and T demonstrates the inability of trying to apply your citation to such situations. If the ball of dead for a throw-in and then play was restarted with one team having six on the court, your citation would make them all legal players. That cannot be the case.

So if A6 had scored a basket during the timeframe and then on the ensuing throw-in committed a foul you would do exactly what when you discover/are informed that A6 is an illegal 6th player?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So if A6 had scored a basket during the timeframe and then on the ensuing throw-in committed a foul you would do exactly what when you discover/are informed that A6 is an illegal 6th player?

Okay, so you guys are going to make me actually think about these scenarios. Fine. I'll ponder the situations for a few hours and then post my final thoughts.

Right now, I'm leaning towards any points scored count and penalizing not only the team with a T for more than five participating (or an illegal substitution T to a particular individual, if appropriate for the circumstances) AND penalizing any contact fouls by a non-player as technical fouls to that individual.

Until then...shut up.