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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 21, 2011, 10:35pm
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what makes you say its never necessary? just wondering im learning too lol
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 21, 2011, 10:39pm
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Originally Posted by ontheway View Post
what makes you say its never necessary? just wondering im learning too lol
While "never" may be extreme, it's a relic signal. It's easier to verbalize, and better, IMO. It's less confrontational.

I can't imagine a scenario where it would be better than verbalizing.

If your supervisors and assigners want you to use it, disregard everything I've written on the topic.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 21, 2011, 10:51pm
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Originally Posted by ontheway View Post
what makes you say its never necessary? just wondering im learning too lol
It's almost never necessary...for 90+ percent of the calls we make, everyone knows who you're calling it on The only time I could justify using the mechanic, is in a situation like the OP brought up, but I'd rather just use my voice to defuse that situation. Plus IMO, it just looks silly and was a pet peeve of mine watching the tournament this year and every official bird dogging and pointing on all types of calls that no one had a question about.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 22, 2011, 10:22am
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Plus IMO, it just looks silly and was a pet peeve of mine watching the tournament this year and every official bird dogging and pointing on all types of calls that no one had a question about.
Unfortunately in TN it is mandatory. The State Supervisor has stated that if "I walk into a GYM to observe a referee that has been recommended by a local association, to work the State tournament, and said referee does not Bird Dog the first foul He calls, I am turning and walking out of the gym."

Last edited by ref2coach; Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 10:31am.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 22, 2011, 10:37am
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Originally Posted by ref2coach View Post
The State Supervisor has stated that if "I walk into a GYM to observe a referee that has been recommended by a local association, to work the State tournament, and said referee does not Bird Dog the first foul He calls, I am turning and walking out of the gym."
Thats quite unfortunate
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 22, 2011, 01:55pm
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
Thats quite unfortunate
It is a simple matter of expecting officials to follow simple instructions from the state about how they want the game called. If the don't do something so simple as that, why should they believe they'll do what else is asked of them?
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 22, 2011, 02:02pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
It is a simple matter of expecting officials to follow simple instructions from the state about how they want the game called. If the don't do something so simple as that, why should they believe they'll do what else is asked of them?
Thats one way of looking at it. Another is, WTF does bird dogging have to do with the ultimate goal... getting plays RIGHT?

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Originally Posted by ref2coach View Post
The State Supervisor has stated that if "I walk into a GYM to observe a referee that has been recommended by a local association, to work the State tournament, and said referee does not Bird Dog the first foul He calls, I am turning and walking out of the gym."
What if the first foul he calls is a fastbreak one on one block/charge? I come out with a block & I have to point the offender out as he lays on his back! It's unfortunate for those who have to follow THAT order.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 23, 2011, 01:49pm
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Our guidance

Here's the procedure we're taught:

Tweet! Color, number, infraction. (Blue, 44, Push... say it right there on the spot.)

Then point to the place where it's going to be put in play (or say two shots, or whatever is appropriate) ... so your partners know what's going on.

Then go report.

Solves a lot of the above... without bird dogging. Ugh.
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Old Thu Jun 23, 2011, 04:17pm
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
+1

Whether I'd call the T is an HTBT, but I find nothing wrong with the OP's approach.
I find nothing wrong with Snag's approach ... but the OP's approach is awful. I can think of NO instance where telling a coach to bench a player is appropriate. T him or don't T him - as you say, HTBT. But telling the coach whether he can play a player or not is incredibly awful. We, as officials, have absolutely no right to do this. If his actions warrant the T, do it... but even if they do, he can stay in the game - where is it even remotely our place to suggest he sit? Just awful.
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Old Thu Jun 23, 2011, 04:21pm
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I find nothing wrong with Snag's approach ... but the OP's approach is awful. I can think of NO instance where telling a coach to bench a player is appropriate. T him or don't T him - as you say, HTBT. But telling the coach whether he can play a player or not is incredibly awful. We, as officials, have absolutely no right to do this. If his actions warrant the T, do it... but even if they do, he can stay in the game - where is it even remotely our place to suggest he sit? Just awful.
Some areas, and some leagues, this is an accepted practice. These are usually coach-run leagues, so if a coach didn't like the approach it won't last long.

I'd never consider doing this in any regular season game, at any level; but sometimes things can be used during summer ball that can't be used during the regular season.
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Old Thu Jun 23, 2011, 04:25pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Some areas, and some leagues, this is an accepted practice. These are usually coach-run leagues, so if a coach didn't like the approach it won't last long.

I'd never consider doing this in any regular season game, at any level; but sometimes things can be used during summer ball that can't be used during the regular season.
The problem I see, depending on game situation, is that this kid might be his best player, and your invented penalty of telling the coach to bench him would be WORSE to that team than simply giving them the penalty they earned (the T) ... if the T is even necessary. Who knows how long before that next dead ball so he can reenter ... who knows if you've now forced that team to use a TO to get the kid back in. I can think of SO many things wrong about this, I'm very surprised it's tolerated, much less suggested or accepted.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 23, 2011, 04:32pm
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
The problem I see, depending on game situation, is that this kid might be his best player, and your invented penalty of telling the coach to bench him would be WORSE to that team than simply giving them the penalty they earned (the T) ... if the T is even necessary. Who knows how long before that next dead ball so he can reenter ... who knows if you've now forced that team to use a TO to get the kid back in. I can think of SO many things wrong about this, I'm very surprised it's tolerated, much less suggested or accepted.
The emphasis of summer ball is not winning so much as instruction, playing time, conditioning, etc. IOW, it's a learning time. Some coaches request this remedy.
Some don't even shoot free throws for Ts (some just give points, some shoot one shot) in the summer. Others would rather sit the kid, skip the free throws, and keep the game moving.
That said, if I were ever to make such a suggestion, it would be a suggestion only, and a coach would be free to ignore it without penalty. But if I was to take that step, the player would be awfully close to earning the T.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 23, 2011, 08:59pm
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
I can think of NO instance where telling a coach to bench a player is appropriate.
That's on me. I misread that part. I didn't see past "the fingers." I agree with you, MB.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 23, 2011, 09:55pm
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I brought up bird dogging for discussion purposes,. my camp guys all say do something like tref said back in the thread thats how i do it and i like it pretty good
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 23, 2011, 10:58pm
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Originally Posted by ref2coach View Post
Unfortunately in TN it is mandatory. The State Supervisor has stated that if "I walk into a GYM to observe a referee that has been recommended by a local association, to work the State tournament, and said referee does not Bird Dog the first foul He calls, I am turning and walking out of the gym."
Does this old codger still communicate via fax too?
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