End of game management - Got to be a better way

[Back In The Saddle]

JV boys, smaller school. Home team completely overmatched. Off and on through the whole game the home coach, who I have had a pretty good relationship with this season, is talking to me about V team fouls that we're missing. At the half my partner and I talk, plan to adjust our mechanics some to try and see this stuff. I even went and talked to the coach at the end of halftime and asked him to tell me exactly what I'm missing. We're really trying to find this phantom stuff. Frankly, mostly what we see is the home team doing stupid stuff, grabbing jerseys, shoving, etc.

With a few mins left in the game, V is up by 30-40. But H is still doing stupid stuff. In the last two minutes I've got a blatant push during a free throw and a dead-ball two handed shove, both by the H team. The coach wants to know why I'm calling stuff on his guys. My answer: "Coach, your guys are frustrated and I'm trying to keep this from coming to blows." Oh, and we fouled out three of his six players.

I absolutely hated how this game ended. I try hard to be aware of game situation and not go rubbing salt in wounds in already decided, lopsided games. But I felt like I had no choice but to keep calling the fouls against H. There has got to be a better way to handle this situation, but what is it?

I guess there are really two questions here: How do I handle the coach, and how do I handle the players?

[PS2Man]

There job is to adjust to us not the other way around. You have to keep calling fouls regardless of who is committing them. I would not care if the home team was upset and they are getting beat. It is not your job to make them happy when they are trying to play the game in a stupid way.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by PS2Man
There job is to adjust to us not the other way around. You have to keep calling fouls regardless of who is committing them. I would not care if the home team was upset and they are getting beat. It is not your job to make them happy when they are trying to play the game in a stupid way.

I agree. It's not our job to make anybody happy. But I have been around long enough to know that how a situation is handled can make a dramatic difference in how the game goes. At the end of this particular game, the best possible outcome would have been to have it end quickly and quietly. Neither of those are helped by delaying the end with foul calls. On the other hand, a fight is the worst possible outcome, and the game must be managed well enough to avoid it.

After the game my partner suggested that rather than call the T for the shove, I could have gotten in there and calmed the guys down. That seems a better way to handle that situation.

[PS2Man]

Back In The Saddle,

In my humble opinion it is better to keep calling fouls then try to rush the game to be over by ignoring what is taking place on the court. You could have had a fight or some kind of altercation if you decided to let some things go. If one team wants to act stupid, keep calling fouls.

I do agree that those kinds of games are not fun at all but I would not feel bad about it. You did the best job you had and most importantly you stopped a fight or something very bad from happening.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
JV boys, smaller school. Home team completely overmatched. Off and on through the whole game the home coach, who I have had a pretty good relationship with this season, is talking to me about V team fouls that we're missing. At the half my partner and I talk, plan to adjust our mechanics some to try and see this stuff. I even went and talked to the coach at the end of halftime and asked him to tell me exactly what I'm missing. We're really trying to find this phantom stuff. Frankly, mostly what we see is the home team doing stupid stuff, grabbing jerseys, shoving, etc.

With a few mins left in the game, V is up by 30-40. But H is still doing stupid stuff. In the last two minutes I've got a blatant push during a free throw and a dead-ball two handed shove, both by the H team. The coach wants to know why I'm calling stuff on his guys. My answer: "Coach, your guys are frustrated and I'm trying to keep this from coming to blows." Oh, and we fouled out three of his six players.

I absolutely hated how this game ended. I try hard to be aware of game situation and not go rubbing salt in wounds in already decided, lopsided games. But I felt like I had no choice but to keep calling the fouls against H. There has got to be a better way to handle this situation, but what is it?

I guess there are really two questions here: How do I handle the coach, and how do I handle the players?

Never say, "Coach tell me what we are missing," you are setting yourself up for more trouble.

If you think you are missing something just ask the coach what they saw...the whole who, what, where and how...of the play, and then say, "Coach we'll watch for it."

With that many fouls you are obviously shooting free throws, so why not talk to the players? A few, "Let's clean it up, " or "Too much hands, let's play some good defense."

I was doing some youth games on Saturday, the teams were mismatched and the point guard on the losing team was getting schooled by the PG from the other team.

The bumping and grabbing started and it was clear that the kid was frustrated. His coach called a time out, and at the end of it I quietly and calmly told the player, "I need you to settle down for me, I know you're frustrated, but you need to clean it up and play ball." I then told the coach exactly what I told the player. The game went on without another problem.

In your case the bigger issue was the coach trying to redirect his player's play into the opponents foul total. If you have a pretty good relationship, and even if you don't, I'd say, "Coach we have not called ANYTHING boarderline on your players, these are OBVIOUS fouls your players are MAKING us call."

[Camron Rust]

I had two games with similar situations in the last two week.

The first was a boys sophomore game between a school with good teams in every category and a school with a middle-of-the-road program. The outcome is pretty clear early in the game. The visiting team is going to get crushed.

We're trying to let them play...giving the visiting team the benefit of the doubt on a lot of situations (more than we're giving the home team once the score difference gets pretty wide). We were trying to talk the visiting team out of fouls. The home coach, who is very intelligent and classy, recognizes the situation, and instead of complaining about it, informs his team during a time out to just keep playing and play with class, that we might let some fouls by the other team go uncalled.

Still, there are complaints...from the visiting coach. He feels we're letting the home team get away with too much and his team is not capable of fouling. He persists and insists we tighten up. The only result if his actions were that his player started getting even rougher.

To keep the game from getting out of control and to stop the escalation of the contact, we were forced to tighten up...just as the coach was ingnorantly pleading for...only the balance of calls that followed were dramatically against his team (and they would have been if we had been tighter at any point in the game).

It made for a long game and, suprisingly, he didn't say a word the rest of the night. The game ended without incident.


On the other game...similar story but in a boys varsity game. Mediocre team and a relatively bad team. Once again, the team that wasn't very good is getting the benefit of the doubt (once the difference becomes apparent) but they only escalates the contact as a result. Their coach is doing the only complaining. We reel it back in by telling the coaches that we are going to tighten up...don't want to suprise them. Again, the calls end up going against the team that was getting beat (with several also going against the better team) but it was necessary to ensure an uneventful outcome.


Neither game was any fun and I really don't like taking the actions we were compelled to take (calling it as tight as we ended up doing). But, I'm going to do what it takes to keep the game from blowing up. Unfortunately, some coaches/teams just don't have a realistic view of their team and/or the game.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Had a game this last weekend with similar explosive events. An out of district team just got moved up from 3A into the 4A division. They're getting their clocks cleaned all around the state - 0-7 for the season.
Early in the 4th quarter, they're losing this one by about 20 when suddenly a home team player comes flying in, soundly checks his opponent, lands on him, slams the ball to the floor, and does an instantaneous war hoop in his face.

I've already tweeted the shooting foul and I'm immediately thinking T-bone. But the player quickly turns and walks away. Get in there quick Tony! Thankfully the home player was walking away from the potential fight.

A T was probably still warranted. But everything now seemed quiet. With my hand on his back, I said "walk with me out here." And he did without any hesitation. "You clobbered him on that. You slammed the ball down. You yelled in his face. Those are technical fouls. You've got to calm down." Well, he's pushing me all over. "I've seen a little of it. I'll watch a little closer. But you calm down alright?"

I report the shooting foul. The coach substituted for him. Shortly thereafter I was able to talk with the other player "You're doing a lot of pushing on rebounds and on defense in general. That rebound and put back you just got was because you pushed the defender out of the way. You've gotta knock off the pushing. Hold your spot but don't push other people out of the way."


T was the right call. But what I did seemed to work. Another 5 minutes of well contested play. Neither coach seemed upset and no more pushing and hollering. Guess I got lucky.

[Robmoz]

Tightening up?

Perhaps if things weren't loosened up to begin with, you could avoid having to tighten up in the end?

Strive for consistency right from the beginning and you can avoid many adjustments that might be caused by your own style. Granted, each game is different but the tone is set early on (more often than not by halftime at least). At the break, you can correct some minor focus points but there should be no need to make great changes in the second half had you been consistent from the rip.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Robmoz
Tightening up?

Perhaps if things weren't loosened up to begin with, you could avoid having to tighten up in the end?

Strive for consistency right from the beginning and you can avoid many adjustments that might be caused by your own style. Granted, each game is different but the tone is set early on (more often than not by halftime at least). At the break, you can correct some minor focus points but there should be no need to make great changes in the second half had you been consistent from the rip.

What does loose or tight have to do with a lack of consistency? You can let them play and be consistent. You can call everything and be consistent.

This is about game management and game flow, and not recognizing those game ruining situations while they are occurring, instead of AFTER they happen.

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by blindzebra

What does loose or tight have to do with a lack of consistency? You can let them play and be consistent. You can call everything and be consistent.

This is about game management and game flow, and not recognizing those game ruining situations while they are occurring, instead of AFTER they happen.

I was referring to the consistency of calling the illegal contact as it occurs in the early stages of the game versus having to "fix" things later on. Too often I hear that guys need to tighten up which implies that they let too much go earlier. "Letting them play" is one thing but let them play within the rules and you can still achieve a good flow.

[Forksref]

If it gets to that point, I will talk to the players and tell them to "cool it" in as many words. I try to do it without making a scene. If I have to , I will stop the game and talk to the captains and coaches.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by Forksref
If it gets to that point, I will talk to the players and tell them to "cool it" in as many words. I try to do it without making a scene. If I have to , I will stop the game and talk to the captains and coaches.

Never done it and have never heard of anyone stopping the game to talk to the Captains and Coaches. This IMO could cause more problems then solutions.

[Forksref]

Originally posted by gordon30307

Never done it and have never heard of anyone stopping the game to talk to the Captains and Coaches. This IMO could cause more problems then solutions.

If you have a game that is about to break out into a brawl, you will do what it takes. In talking to the coaches and captains, you will at least have made the effort to appeal to the reasonable ones. I have done this in football in a crazy rivalry college game and it worked. This did NOT cause more problems.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by Forksref

If you have a game that is about to break out into a brawl, you will do what it takes. In talking to the coaches and captains, you will at least have made the effort to appeal to the reasonable ones. I have done this in football in a crazy rivalry college game and it worked. This did NOT cause more problems.

Knock on wood I've never came close to having a game break out into a brawl. If I was doing adult rec. ball I'm out of there. If I'm doing high school shame on me for not (as Barney says) nipping it in the bud.

[SMEngmann]

Most of these types of problems that I see occur at the sub-varsity level, with less experienced coaches and less mature players. Particularly in blowouts, a losing coach can really create problems by whining about calls. In my experience as a player, coach and now an official, it's easy to see that coaches have a great deal of influence on players, particularly at that level, and the constant whining leads the players to think they're getting cheated and increases the frustration level. It leads them to hunt for calls and focus on us and our game, rather than theirs.

Whenever I have a coach like this, particularly in JV games, I will keep an eye on him and try to redirect his efforts to the players. I'll acknowledge his frustration and comments, but I won't stand for being a punching bag for him and his players to take out their anger, as this tends to lead to things like the deadball push, hard foul, etc. I will use the T to rein in the coach, and this past weekend, I had to toss a coach to keep the game under control. My level of tolerance for coaches berating me on phantom calls is very low and I think more officials need to establish that low level of tolerance early to keep games under control, particularly at the JV level where less experienced officials often have to, and can't deal properly with these types of jerks.