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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 10:12am
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This is geared towards guys who have worked Freshman / JV double headers....We tossed the Visotors Freshman coach....it was my T that was his 2nd direct and it was overdue.

This was during the Freshman game of a triple header (Freshman / JV / Varsity) of one of the biggest rivalries in town. So, how many of you would have then been the guy who then gave the visiting JV coach a much deserved T? I was determined to give the guy some rope and he took 112%. It was almost like he knew he had that rope too. I managed to keep my cool and get out of there but here's some of the things he said / did:

Choke sign while I was reporting
Questioned our interity ("why dont you just give them the game" after a foul call)
Got on my @$$ for asking for my P's help on a line call
etc etc.

I let him go because I didnt want to be known as the guy who ran the Freshman coach and then whacked the JV coach.

How would you handle? I am sure a lot of you out there would understand that it's hard to climb the ladder nowadays. Seems like coaches have a lot more input these days on who gets to work in their leagues. In hindsight, I think I should have whacked him for the choke sign because that would have shown up on tape.

Why is it that almost every freshman and JV coach in Ohio has to act like Bobby Knight or Bob Huggins on their worst days?

Larks
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 10:26am
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As I have said before (and often), I am one of the more "thick-skinned" officials in our area. Having said that, I will say this: "I would have given the JV coach his stop sign early. It is then HIS choice where it goes from there."

It sounds like this guy was challenging you and until you drew the line, and demonstrated confidence in your game, he was going to push and push...

BsktbllRef said it in the other thread, "Sometimes, it's just obvious that things are not going to get any better until something is done."

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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 10:58am
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I agree. I also have a very thick skin during a game, probably because I deal with people who are under stress as part of my regular occupation. But when a coach is getting out of control, I make a point of giving him the clear "stop" sign and that is the warning. If his behavior doesn't change, then it is time to take care of business and the "T" is in order.

Also, after I issue a "T" (and I do it as businesslike as possible with very little emotion) I don't head right for the table to report it. Instead I head towards the center circle...this way, if the coach has anything that he wants to say to me, he has to either say it loudly so that everyone can hear it or come onto the court. Of course, either way he gets another "T."
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 11:17am
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Unacceptable behavior....

In baseball I'd love to throw a technical now and again.

The technical foul is a tool that sometimes needs to be used.

Whack the JV coach early.

Choke signal? *whack*

Commenting on "giving the game to the other team" is a comment on your integrity. *whack*

Too many people are unwilling to mete out the technical fouls when they are deserved. In baseball, a wise man once told me that if you doubt whether you should've ejected a coach/manager/player after the game (when you haven't), you should've done it.

In basketball, you don't even have to dump the coach. Hit him early with a technical foul when he starts behaving like a three-year-old, then GET AWAY from him. (An added benefit in coaching box states is that this T brings out the seatbelt). Don't worry about getting the foul to the table right away. Seek out your partner, especially if the situation is emotional, which is likely.

Your partner should slow you down, find out what happened, make sure you get the right team's shooter and head to the right end of the court. Regardless of the proper mechanics, put the calling official in the position as far away from the "receiving" coach as possible. Let the partner take the technical to the table, if necessary, while the other team's player is shooting the free throws.

After an emotional scene, which a technical can be, game management and recovery is the primary task at hand. And the off-official(s) are the keys to making sure that the game gets back under control.

Rich
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 11:42am
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I agree with Rich about the reporting process. I called a T on a girl at camp for taunting. During the discussion with the evaluator after the game he gave us a mechanic to make sure all the officials have a chance to calm down and allows for a quick recovery of control (if it was momentarily lost).

Calling official walks to his partner(s), tells them what he has and what will be happening (I have a T on the visiting howler monkey, white will shoot 2 then have the ball at the division line opposite for a throw-in). Then the calling official reports the T to the table and ask the other coach to identify who will take the shots. While he is doing that, his partner informs the offending coach that he has lost the use of his box, then administers the FTs. Calling official goes to the opposite side of the floor to administer the throw-in.

In practice, I have found the discussion forces the calling official to gather himself if necessary. If you are working two-man it is best if you meet at centercourt. If the T is on a player, you obviously need to make sure the situation with the players is under control before you start the process and must watching the players during. It is a slightly drawn out process but I have found it works well.

And I would have whacked the JV coach for the choke sign.

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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 12:07pm
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I agree with what has been said so far and would add a couple of insights. First, I would have whacked him for the choke signal, the giving the game comment either one, probably more for the choke signal than the comment. I may just address his comment with a stern warning. The main comment I have to add is that there are a couple of reasons that this happens more often in the freshman/jv/junior high games than it does at varsity or college. First is the officials lack of confidence and experience. I often wish I could go back and work games for some coach that made me look stupid when I first started and I was green enough to put up with it. The reality is once you gain that confidence, for the most part, they seem to sense that you aren't going to put up with it and you don't have as much trouble. Also, the coaches are less experienced and try to act like Bobby Knight, because they don't know better and they have gotten away with it before. I also agree with Rich, that we are too hesitant to use the T to improve the game. I'm not saying give them at the drop of a hat, but when the situation calls, don't hesitate. Nobody wants to be T'happy, in fact, I have only given three (all in the same game, but that's another story) technicals in the last two years in varsity games and have never T'd a varstiy coach.
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 12:07pm
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Re: Unacceptable behavior....

Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
In baseball I'd love to throw a technical now and again.

Football has the "unsportsmalike conduct" penalty that you can use as a tool,also.Hockey has "bench"penalties.I agree with Rich that it's nice to have a tool to let the coach(s) know that they're pushing their luck,without having the strict choice of eject/not eject after you say "Coach,that's enough".I have always had nothing but the utmost admiration and respect for the difficult job that a good baseball umpire has of keeping some games under control,while trying to keep the participants in it.
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 12:10pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Larks
Choke sign while I was reporting
If a coach shows me up like this, he's gone. Ejected. I have no problem with chatter and questioning calls on occasion, but a gesture like this in front of everyone is a challenge. Throw his butt out and I bet he'll think twice the next time that thought crosses his mind.
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 12:34pm
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Oh, I'm ok with giving out a T. I whacked the freshman coach for his crap. Its the politics later that I guess I was commenting on. You whack and toss the freshman coach...and now you have the JV coach from the same team on your a$$ the next game because he probably knows you dont want to be the guy who is tossing and whacking everyone.

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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 12:43pm
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I called a technical on the visiting head coach in my first varsity game this year. Called a technical on a player in my third varsity game.

I'm not technical happy, however I'm reluctant to keep stats on the number of technicals (or ejections) I have in a season. While some officials, supervisors, and coaches think that an official's ability, character, and experience have everything to do with the number of technicals or ejections he has, there is a huge wildcard -- the participants.

I can't control a coach's technical-worthy outbursts. I can't control the player that spikes the ball, gets mouthy on a clear foul, or taunts his opponent. I am not the one responsible for the technicals -- I am merely there to report what I see and enforce the rules.

And younger officials eventually learn that not calling a technical can be just as bad as calling one too quickly.

Rich
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 12:51pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
I'm not technical happy, however I'm reluctant to keep stats on the number of technicals (or ejections) I have in a season. While some officials, supervisors, and coaches think that an official's ability, character, and experience have everything to do with the number of technicals or ejections he has, there is a huge wildcard -- the participants.

I can't control a coach's technical-worthy outbursts. I can't control the player that spikes the ball, gets mouthy on a clear foul, or taunts his opponent. I am not the one responsible for the technicals -- I am merely there to report what I see and enforce the rules.

And younger officials eventually learn that not calling a technical can be just as bad as calling one too quickly.

Rich
Amen to that!
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 01:21pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Larks
Why is it that almost every freshman and JV coach in Ohio has to act like Bobby Knight or Bob Huggins on their worst days?

Larks
VIT
Maybe because we - as officials - allow them to act that way...any of the the things you say this coach did should have earned him an immediate T...every time an official allows a coach to act like that, they get worse at the next game...I have never gotten in trouble for calling a T, but have had supervisors angry with me for "not taking care of business" before...whack him and toss him also if he won't stop...
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 01:32pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Larks
Choke sign while I was reporting
If a coach does this to me, he'll spend the rest of the game in the parking lot choking his chicken.
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 02:02pm
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While he is doing that, his partner informs the offending coach that he has lost the use of his box, then administers the FTs. Calling official goes to the opposite side of the floor to administer the throw-in

We have done it this way also...but, I have found that by giving the "calling" official something to do, administering FTs, it enables him to regain some composure and not have him just standing there at Mid-court taking all the "heat" from fans etc.
We pre-game this...and I tell my partner that some situations may dictate the calling official going to Mid-court, it just depends. I might want to go there to talk to some of the players about sportsmanship, etc....while the FTs are being administered.

Dude
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Old Mon Dec 30, 2002, 02:30pm
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I agree with Mark. I would've tossed him for a choke sign, too. But I wonder if the coach wouldn't have already had gotten at least one T before this had I been working.

The one that always drove me nuts was the praying coach. You know, the one where the coach puts out his arms with palms upward?

Then I had a partner who used this line: "Prayer won't help you tonight coach."

Rich
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