10 second count

[observer]

very good, now this is different if the ball is in the front
court, get tipped to the back court by the defense, the
official starts the back court count as soon as the ball crosses
the division line, correct.

[stiffler3492]

No. The count starts when A regains player control.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by observer

very good, now this is different if the ball is in the front
court, get tipped to the back court by the defense, the
official starts the back court count as soon as the ball crosses
the division line, correct.

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

No. The count starts when A regains player control.

tref is right.

Both of these are wrong.

The count starts as soon as it touches the floor in the BC, since team control is already established and on-going.

If, however, the ball gets tipped into the BC from a rebound, it would not start until player/team control is re-established, assuming the ball still has BC status at that time.

[Adam]

The key here is to know what the 10 second violation is for.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The key here is to know what the 10 second violation is for.

NFHS - Rule 9-8: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous "control" of a ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

The count stops when the ball touches the floor (or rim/backboard) in the frontcourt or a player or official in the frontcourt.

Rule 4-3 ... A ball in flight retains the same location as when it was last in contact with a player or court.

Just to contribute something ...

[tref]

And if B tips it toward the b/c & A catches it before it bounces in the b/c... nevermind

Seriously though, keep in mind that the timeline is part of the b/c too. So the count could re-start by the ball touching when f/c has been established.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

And if B tips it toward the b/c & A catches it before it bounces in the b/c... nevermind

Seriously though, keep in mind that the timeline is part of the b/c too. So the count could re-start by the ball touching when f/c has been established.

Good point. You could, conceivably, have a 10 second count started while waiting for a BC violation to occur. In fact, you should, in case B touches the ball first but doesn't gain control before an A player does regain control.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

tref is right.

Both of these are wrong.

The count starts as soon as it touches the floor in the BC, since team control is already established and on-going.

This was Justacoach's "favorite discussion" with some of our training committee and senior officials and NONE of them would ever admit they were incorrect.

[stiffler3492]

This makes sense, but is there a case/rule reference?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

This makes sense, but is there a case/rule reference?

Let me see if I can find one. Oh yeah, here it is:

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

NFHS - Rule 9-8: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous "control" of a ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

The count stops when the ball touches the floor (or rim/backboard) in the frontcourt or a player or official in the frontcourt.

Rule 4-3 ... A ball in flight retains the same location as when it was last in contact with a player or court.

Just to contribute something ...

[APG]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

This makes sense, but is there a case/rule reference?

2008-09 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 8: A1 is dribbling in his/her frontcourt when B1 deflects the ball into A's backcourt. The ball is bouncing toward the end line in A's backcourt while A1 and B1 give chase. B1 and A1 each contact the ball, but neither gains control. Finally, after numerous attempts by each player, A1 gains possession deep in A's backcourt. When does the 10-second count begin anew for Team A?

RULING: The count starts as soon as the ball goes into the backcourt since team control has not ended. (4-12-3; 9-8)

[stiffler3492]

Thanks APG.

[tref]

Incorrect, the count starts when the ball has b/c status.

Player/ball location = you are where you are til you get where you're going.