Do you count the run?

[UMP25]

Here's one that's got some associates of mine all flustered (I haven't told them the answer yet):

PLAY: Two outs and a runner on third base when an improper batter is at bat (Frank is batting but Edward is supposed to bat). The batter walks on ball four, a pitch that happens to get away from the catcher. R3 on third trots home on the wild pitch. The defensive manager then comes out to appeal the batting out of order. The umpire grants the appeal, declaring out Edward for not batting in his proper slot, and removes Frank from first base, inning over. Here's the question: do you count R3's run?

[UmpJM]

UMP25,

No.

JM

[UMP25]

I think I intentionally confused many of them by reminding them that advances by runners due to balks or wild pitches when an improper batter is at bat do count. Not that this means the run counts. Just throwing that out there to further confuse the masses.

[yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I think I intentionally confused many of them by reminding them that advances by runners due to balks or wild pitches when an improper batter is at bat do count. Not that this means the run counts. Just throwing that out there to further confuse the masses.

if the wild pitch happened on ball three and the runner from third scored then the run would of counted? is this correct?

[UmpJM]

Yankeesfan,

That would be absolutely correct.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I think I intentionally confused many of them by reminding them that advances by runners due to balks or wild pitches when an improper batter is at bat do count. Not that this means the run counts. Just throwing that out there to further confuse the masses.

That is because R3 scored because he was awarded home on ball four in this case, and not as the result of a wild pitch or a balk. The fact that ball four was also a wild pitch does not mean R3's run counts for this very reason. On proper appeal, R3's run is negated.

[UmpJM]

S.D. Steve,

I believe that in UMP25's sitch, the R3 is the only baserunner. Therefore, there is no award to the R3 on the ball 4 (wild) pitch to the batter.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Man, I'm not reading well lately.

[BoomerSooner]

Wouldn't the key to this situation be that, in this case, the batter's time at bat ends upon become a runner or more properly a batter-runner and therefore anything that occurs after this point can be negated by batting out of order.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PWL

I do remember a FED case play with runner at third and two out stating that the activity of the improper batter did not assist or advance the base runner. I believe this was for a steal of home. It also stated something about if it was the third strike if catcher either caught the ball or threw out the improper batter at first the run would not count.

So with a base on balls, wouldn't this be the same thing.

Runs scores. Improper batter out on proper appeal.

Also FED has any runner advancing on a balk, wild pitch, passed ball, or steal while the improper batter is at bat is legal.

Should be the same in OBR.

The only way the run would score on an advance unrelated to the improper batters advance to first would be with less than two outs. This play has two outs and no run can score if the third out is made before the batter obtains first base. No run scores on this play.


Tim.

[bob jenkins]

WUA has opined on this play. I'm "sure" someone at eteamz has the email

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

if the wild pitch happened on ball three and the runner from third scored then the run would of counted? is this correct?

Trick question, right? That's NOT correct. The run would HAVE counted.

[yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Trick question, right? That's NOT correct. The run would HAVE counted.

what are you talking about? thats what i said.

[orioles35]

The run should count, UNLESS it is as a result of an action by the improper batter. For instance, if the improper batter singled, the run wouldn't count since that single by the improper batter caused the run to score.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

what are you talking about? thats what i said.

Read it again. You said the run "would *OF* counted."

mbyron points out that "would *HAVE* counted" is proper.