10 second count

[observer]

Men's NCAA and NFS
After a made basket by team "A", team "B1" obtains the ball out of
bounds for a throw in. Official starts a 5 second count and his/her
count stops when the ball is released by "B1" onto the playing
court. My question is when does the official start the 10 second
count for back court? When the ball crossed the imaginary out of
bounds plane or when the ball is touched by offense/defense player
on the court? The count stops when the ball crosses the imiginary
plane of the center court?

[Jurassic Referee]

The 10-second count starts when a team establishes team control in their backcourt. Team control is established when player control is established. Player control is holding or dribbling the ball.

The 10-second count stops when the ball attains front court status i.e. it touches the front court or something completely in the front court.

[stiffler3492]

The 10 second count starts when Team A secures team control. It stops when the official gets to ten, or the ball gains frontcourt status.

If a dribbler is bringing the ball over the division line, he must get both feet and the ball in the frontcourt to obtain frontcourt status.

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The 10-second count starts when a team establishes team control in their backcourt. Team control is established when player control is established. Player control is holding or dribbling the ball.

The 10-second count stops when the ball attains front court status i.e. it touches the front court or something in the front court.

Wow I think if we combined our two posts, we'd have the perfect answer.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Player control is holding or dribbling the ball.

Just to be technical (pun intended), player control is established when a player is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. I'm only getting nit-picky here because the OP seemed not too familiar with our terminology and I didn't want him to think that the inbounder holding the ball, or "bouncing" - not "dribbling" (another nit-picky difference) OOB would start the count.

No put down intended, JR.

[APG]

The count also stops (and is reset) if the ball becomes dead.

[observer]

very good, now this is different if the ball is in the front
court, get tipped to the back court by the defense, the
official starts the back court count as soon as the ball crosses
the division line, correct.

[stiffler3492]

No. The count starts when A regains player control.

[tref]

Incorrect, the count starts when the ball has b/c status.

Player/ball location = you are where you are til you get where you're going.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by observer

very good, now this is different if the ball is in the front
court, get tipped to the back court by the defense, the
official starts the back court count as soon as the ball crosses
the division line, correct.

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

No. The count starts when A regains player control.

tref is right.

Both of these are wrong.

The count starts as soon as it touches the floor in the BC, since team control is already established and on-going.

If, however, the ball gets tipped into the BC from a rebound, it would not start until player/team control is re-established, assuming the ball still has BC status at that time.

[Adam]

The key here is to know what the 10 second violation is for.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The key here is to know what the 10 second violation is for.

NFHS - Rule 9-8: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous "control" of a ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

The count stops when the ball touches the floor (or rim/backboard) in the frontcourt or a player or official in the frontcourt.

Rule 4-3 ... A ball in flight retains the same location as when it was last in contact with a player or court.

Just to contribute something ...

[tref]

And if B tips it toward the b/c & A catches it before it bounces in the b/c... nevermind

Seriously though, keep in mind that the timeline is part of the b/c too. So the count could re-start by the ball touching when f/c has been established.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

And if B tips it toward the b/c & A catches it before it bounces in the b/c... nevermind

Seriously though, keep in mind that the timeline is part of the b/c too. So the count could re-start by the ball touching when f/c has been established.

Good point. You could, conceivably, have a 10 second count started while waiting for a BC violation to occur. In fact, you should, in case B touches the ball first but doesn't gain control before an A player does regain control.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

tref is right.

Both of these are wrong.

The count starts as soon as it touches the floor in the BC, since team control is already established and on-going.

This was Justacoach's "favorite discussion" with some of our training committee and senior officials and NONE of them would ever admit they were incorrect.