Count it or not ?

[GA ref]

A defender deflects a pass that was made just behind the three point line. The defelected ball then bounces and goes through the goal. Is it a three, two, or no basket at all ? Who get credit in the boook. This play actually happened in a men's league game over the weekend.

[Jurassic Referee]

Count the basket as a 2-pointer- as long as it went in before the horn sounded for the end of a period. It can't be a 3-pointer because the "try" ended when the ball hit the floor(rule 4-40-4), but the 2-point basket always counts because a live ball went through the basket(rule 5-1-1).

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by GA ref
Who get credit in the boook.

No one. It's just a footnote on the score book.

[tjchamp]

What if the defender: 1)standing outside the 3 point line, deflects the ball in the air and it goes thru the hoop (on the fly)? 2) standing inside the 3 point line, deflects the ball in the air and it goes thru the hoop (on the fly)?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by tjchamp
What if the defender: 1)standing outside the 3 point line, deflects the ball in the air and it goes thru the hoop (on the fly)? 2) standing inside the 3 point line, deflects the ball in the air and it goes thru the hoop (on the fly)?

The deflection does not change the status of the shot.

[footlocker]

hmmm...Interesting. I'm not sure we are on the same page here.

Bob, you said, "The deflection does not change the status of the shot."

I would agree with you if it were a shot that was blocked. However, this is not a try, it is a pass deflected.

What if this is a pass from behind the arc, then deflected?
a. deflected by a player also behind the arc?
b. deflected by a player inside the arc?

I say 3 for (a) and 2 for (b). Any other thoughts?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by footlocker
hmmm...Interesting. I'm not sure we are on the same page here.

Bob, you said, "The deflection does not change the status of the shot."

I would agree with you if it were a shot that was blocked. However, this is not a try, it is a pass deflected.

What if this is a pass from behind the arc, then deflected?
a. deflected by a player also behind the arc?
b. deflected by a player inside the arc?

I say 3 for (a) and 2 for (b). Any other thoughts?

I agree with 3 for (a). The scoring for (b) depends on whether it's an offensive or defensive player that deflects the ball inside the arc. Defensive player = 3 points. Offensive player = 2 points. Note that Bob's answer referred to a defender touching the ball, and thus was completely correct.

Casebook play 5.2.1SitC.

[footlocker]

JR, I think I said that. My only point was that this is not a shot as stated by bob. It is not a try, it is a pass. I don't know if that would change the answer that is why I reposted with that clarification and a question. Thanks for the answer.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by footlocker
JR, I think I said that. My only point was that this is not a shot as stated by bob. It is not a try, it is a pass. I don't know if that would change the answer that is why I reposted with that clarification and a question. Thanks for the answer.

Maybe this will help, Footlocker. If you look at the language of rule 5-2-1, it says "try, tap or THROWN ball". In other words, the 3-point score applies to a ball that is thrown from outside the arc. Then note that case book play 5.2.1SitC says that "A1 THROWS the ball from behind the three-point line...". The ruling for touching by a defender inside the arc- 5.2.1SitC(b)- says that "three points are scored since the legal touching was by the defense". In other words, in the casebook play, A1 is throwing the ball, not shooting the ball. Does that clear it up?

[Adam]

Wasn't this changed recently to remove the messy judgment required to determine if a ball was passed or shot? A lot of lob passes look like shots, and some of those frozen rope shots look more like passes. A few of each happen to fall through the net.

[BoomerSooner]

My thought is that if it is clear that it was a pass and is touched by a defender regardless of court position, it should only be 2pts. A try (based on memory here, don't have my book) requires that the thrown ball be an attempt at one's own basket. I think it all depends on the official making a quick judgement as to whether it was definitly a pass. If it were me and I had even a small thought that it is a shot then I would score according to the shooter's position assuming ball scores w/o hitting the floor.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by BoomerSooner
My thought is that if it is clear that it was a pass and is touched by a defender regardless of court position, it should only be 2pts. A try (based on memory here, don't have my book) requires that the thrown ball be an attempt at one's own basket

5.2.1 situation B: A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an actual try for goal.

[footlocker]

thanks JR. That makes the most sense too. Amazing how that works out. Nothing difficult here; if the throw originates from behind ones own arc, touching from anywhere by an opponent that causes the ball to enter counts as three points. No need to determine if the throw was a pass or try.

[oc]

Originally posted by footlocker
thanks JR. That makes the most sense too. Amazing how that works out. Nothing difficult here; if the throw originates from behind ones own arc, touching from anywhere by an opponent that causes the ball to enter counts as three points. No need to determine if the throw was a pass or try.

Except in FIBA. In FIBA if the shot is touched from inside the arc it is now a 2 pointer. In the rare case where A-1 shoots from inside the arc and then B-1, standing or having jumped from behind the arc, touches the ball it is now a 3 pointer. Rule change about 4 years ago.

[BoomerSooner]

NCAA R4-66 in conjuction with AR39 and AR41 say only 2pts if the throw is deflected by the defense and had no possibilty of entering the basket from above. I would tend to ere on the side of any pass close to the basket as having a possiblity of going in, but from the top of the arc a lob pass to a player trying to dunk that wouldn't even hit the backboard w/o outside influence shouldn't be awarded 3pts if deflected by the defense. I don't have my current Fed book with me, but I believe the spirit of the rule is the same (and hopefully a proper interp to go with it).

[Edited by BoomerSooner on Feb 26th, 2004 at 02:13 AM]