Is there such an animal as a False Multiple Technical?

[CK]

Sorry for the confusion in the original post

Thank you for the responses.

MTD, you answered the question as to, is there such an animal as a False Multiple Technical.

Thank You.

I will reword this

The question I have is two fold:

1: If the offical discovers during a LIVE ball, 6 players on the floor and blows the whistle to call the T (now a dead ball), at approximately the same time( or within seconds afterwards) the coach realizes they have 6 players on the floor and tries to pull that player off the floor. However the coach had a sub ready (on the bench) and the sub entered the floor without checking in or being beckoned. (A6 is replaced by A7) Still 6 on the floor.

Would this be a False Multiple Technical foul?

2: The official discovers 6 on the floor participating and BEFORE they blow the ball dead A7 subs for A6 without reporting or being beckoned, would this be a multiple Technical foul?

Sorry for the confusion and thank you again in advance

CK

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by CK

Sorry for the confusion in the original post

Thank you for the responses.

MTD, you answered the question as to, is there such an animal as a False Multiple Technical.

Thank You.

I will reword this

The question I have is two fold:

1: If the offical discovers during a LIVE ball, 6 players on the floor and blows the whistle to call the T (now a dead ball), at approximately the same time( or within seconds afterwards) the coach realizes they have 6 players on the floor and tries to pull that player off the floor. However the coach had a sub ready (on the bench) and the sub entered the floor without checking in or being beckoned. (A6 is replaced by A7) Still 6 on the floor.

Would this be a False Multiple Technical foul?

2: The official discovers 6 on the floor participating and BEFORE they blow the ball dead A7 subs for A6 without reporting or being beckoned, would this be a multiple Technical foul?

Sorry for the confusion and thank you again in advance

CK

Both plays would be a team technical followed by a player technical. Four free throws for the offended team, ball out of bounds at the division line.

[BillyMac]

This "more than five team members participating" is still bugging me.

I know this is poor mechanics, but bear with me and stick to the rules, especially those of you that believe that a technical foul for six players can't be given during a clock stopped, dead ball, situation.

Team A head coach yells to nearest official that there are six Team B players participating. Official sounds whistle to stop the action to count the players. There are six Team B team members on the court during this dead ball, clock stopped, situation. What's the call?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I know this is poor mechanics, but bear with me and stick to the rules, especially those of you that believe that a technical foul for six players can't be given during a clock stopped, dead ball, situation.

Those who believe that include every single official in the world except you, Old School.

[Adam]

Billy, I think it's safe to say that any official who screws this up and blows his whistle to count is likely to call the TF when he gets to 6.

Neither would be correct.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Team A head coach yells to nearest official that there are six Team B players participating. Official sounds whistle to stop the action to count the players. There are six Team B team members on the court during this dead ball, clock stopped, situation. What's the call?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Billy, I think it's safe to say that any official who screws this up and blows his whistle to count is likely to call the TF when he gets to 6. Neither would be correct.

Thank you for your input. I'm almost convinced that this is the correct answer, but I would still have a tough time explaining it to the coach of Team A.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Those who believe that include every single official in the world except you.

It would make this "more than five team members participating" rule a lot easier to understand if it were true that a technical foul can't be charged if the ball is dead, and the clock is stopped. I would like it to be the NFHS interpretation. I'm almost convinced that it's the correct interpretation. I know that I'm debating with one of the great rules debaters on the Forum, and I'm more than likely going to come out on the wrong end of the debate. But, just answer my question:

Team A head coach yells to nearest official that there are six Team B players participating. Official sounds whistle to stop the action to count the players. There are six Team B team members on the court during this dead ball, clock stopped, situation. What's the call?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Team A head coach yells to nearest official that there are six Team B players participating. Official sounds whistle to stop the action to count the players. There are six Team B team members on the court during this dead ball, clock stopped, situation. What's the call?

Billy, methinks you're ten pounds of cuckoo in a four pound clock.....

You're an analytical chemist. Well, analyze this:
1) WHY did the official blow his whistle?
2) What did the official confirm after he blew his whistle?

Now, if you're going to spend most of your waking hours dreaming up these freaking twp's, for Andy's sake couldn't you at least come up with something a little more logical? If anybody hollers at you that a team has 6 on the floor, would anybody with even the tinest amount of experience and rules knowledge not count the players before blowing his whistle? Any putz that doesn't is walking on thin ice imo.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If anybody hollers at you that a team has 6 on the floor, would anybody with even the tinest amount of experience and rules knowledge not count the players before blowing his whistle? Any putz that doesn't is walking on thin ice imo.

I'm thinking the guy mentioned above is gonna indicate that he did count before the whistle, whether he actually did so or not. If he then counts again, ostensibly to double check, I really don't see how anybody could complain.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Team A head coach yells to nearest official that there are six Team B players participating. Official sounds whistle to stop the action to count the players. There are six Team B team members on the court during this dead ball, clock stopped, situation. What's the call?

I've been thinking about this one some more. (I think about things. It's what I do)

dis·cov·er (d-skvr) tr.v. dis·cov·ered, dis·cov·er·ing, dis·cov·ers

1. To notice or learn,

What defines discovery in this case? The officials learned about six on the floor from the coach, then went on to verify the information after a spontaneous (poorly timed) whistle. Ideally, one should make his own count first, but, in this case, I don't think this mistake kills the possibility of the T. JMO

I anticipate hearty disagreement on this opinion.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I anticipate hearty disagreement on this opinion.

Wrong. Instead, you will get extreme apathy, as in no one gives a sh!t except you and Billy.

Just call the damn game. It's what we should do.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I think about things. It's what I do.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Just call the damn game. It's what we should do.

In the opinion of many coaches, it's very difficult to do both at the same time.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Wrong. Instead, you will get extreme apathy, as in no one gives a sh!t except you and Billy.

Just call the damn game. It's what we should do.

Thanks for your support.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Thanks for your support.

I support you just as fully as you support your fellow LA associations.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Not when players are standing around, or moving to the next throw-in spot, etc.

I was pretty satisfied after this post.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good point. Advantage. Disadvantage.

I've got some closure. Feels real good.

Originally Posted by just another ref

I've been thinking about this one some more. I think about things. It's what I do. The officials learned about six on the floor from the coach, then went on to verify the information.

Damn you just another ref. Now you've got me thinking again.