2011 Tournament Discussion Redux

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

He aborted his 5th stroke to blow his whistle and looked like, to me at least, that he thought about granting the time-out and then decided to call the 5-second violation.

Me personally, I'm granting the time-out in that situation.

[Raymond]

I didn't see any of the FSU/ND game. What caused all the T's to be called?

[Jburt]

Did Texas have any TO remaining?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jburt

Did Texas have any TO remaining?

Not relevant to the discussion at hand, really. If they didn't, the proper call would have been to grant the TO and charge the TF (assuming it was requested in time) rather than ignore it and charge the 5 second violation.

[Jburt]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not relevant to the discussion at hand, really. If they didn't, the proper call would have been to grant the TO and charge the TF (assuming it was requested in time) rather than ignore it and charge the 5 second violation.

I disagree that it is not relevant. It could be argued, that if Texas did not have a TO remaining and the request came simultaneous, or close to, the 5 second violation, that he called the violation rather than issue a TF for an excessive TO.
Right or wrong, it could be a possibility, which is why I asked whether they had a TO or not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jburt

I disagree that it is not relevant. It could be argued, that if Texas did not have a TO remaining and the request came simultaneous, or close to, the 5 second violation, that he called the violation rather than issue a TF for an excessive TO.
Right or wrong, it could be a possibility, which is why I asked whether they had a TO or not.

Fair enough, I didn't realize you were suggesting the official simply lacked the stones to make the right call.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jburt

I disagree that it is not relevant. It could be argued, that if Texas did not have a TO remaining and the request came simultaneous, or close to, the 5 second violation, that he called the violation rather than issue a TF for an excessive TO.
Right or wrong, it could be a possibility, which is why I asked whether they had a TO or not.

It is certainly debatable whether the TO request was made in time to beat the 5 second count in this play. Whether or not the team had a TO should not play any part in that debate.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Jburt

Did Texas have any TO remaining?

Yes, they had one remaining.

[KCOfficial]

Did anyone have a problem with Jim Burr bailing out of his lead position in the last moments of the Texas game. If he stays in position, he would possibly have a call on either the drive or the rebound.

When it hit 0:00 he was by the NCAA Logo in between the 3pt line and the free throw lane. Not underneath where he should be.

Thoughts?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by KCOfficial

Did anyone have a problem with Jim Burr bailing out of his lead position in the last moments of the Texas game. If he stays in position, he would possibly have a call on either the drive or the rebound.

When it hit 0:00 he was by the NCAA Logo in between the 3pt line and the free throw lane. Not underneath where he should be.

Thoughts?

I've only seen that hilight once and I didn't pay attention to Burr. However I notice he is still way ahead of the ball when he's the new trail. John Adams has specifically pointed that out as a mechanic that is not acceptable but Burr continues to do it. I just don't understand the need for him to get ahead of the ball. I wish I could hear him explain why he does that.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by KCOfficial

Did anyone have a problem with Jim Burr bailing out of his lead position in the last moments of the Texas game. If he stays in position, he would possibly have a call on either the drive or the rebound.

When it hit 0:00 he was by the NCAA Logo in between the 3pt line and the free throw lane. Not underneath where he should be.

Thoughts?

I can't stand Texas and was rooting for Arizona, but even I thought that both Texas players were fouled on the final possession and that Jim Burr put himself in a worse spot by trying to get an angle. I'm surpised that the C didn't have a call.

Texas got hosed. This game will drop Burr from advancing, IMO.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I didn't see any of the FSU/ND game. What caused all the T's to be called?

The only T I saw was an FSU player who complained about being tripped to the floor. Problem is his teammate tripped him. He came up yelling at the trail, WHACK, then tried to pretend he was yelling to his coach.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

He aborted his 5th stroke to blow his whistle and looked like, to me at least, that he thought about granting the time-out and then decided to call the 5-second violation.

Me personally, I'm granting the time-out in that situation.

I just timed, with a stopwatch, from the instant he caught the ball to the movement of the arm for the violation. After about a 7-8 trials, I keep getting from 4.95 to 5.75.

It sure felt fast and it is hard to sync exactly with the short, grainy video clip but it really seems to be right on the money.

I think we're all just used to slow counts on throwins....I know when I've timed other officials in an evaluation, I've never found even one to be accurate in their pace...most are about 50% too slow or worse.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I just timed, with a stopwatch, from the instant he caught the ball to the movement of the arm for the violation. After about a 7-8 trials, I keep getting from 4.95 to 5.75.

It sure felt fast and it is hard to sync exactly with the short, grainy video clip but it really seems to be right on the money.

I think we're all just used to slow counts on throwins....I know when I've timed other officials in an evaluation, I've never found even one to be accurate in their pace...most are about 50% too slow or worse.

I got closer to 4.2-4.5. I never got anywhere north of 5 much less closer to 5.75. Various sporting networks I've seen at most had 4.9.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I got closer to 4.2-4.5. I never got anywhere north of 5 much less closer to 5.75. Various sporting networks I've seen at most had 4.9.

It all depends on when you judge that he caught the ball....and I was being generous to the official....the earliest possible point that the player touched the ball. Even if it measured out at 5.0, it was uncharacteristically quick.