How to deal with bad refs

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did you really expect to get an "honest answer" when you are asking people to know what motivates people in an area none of us know anything about?

No I expected to get an opinion or several of them. I got plenty and some that helped.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Your post does not bother me at all. Honestly I am bored which is why I commented in the first place. I just wonder what you are going to find on an internet site that you could not find out by asking the people in your area or from the officials working your games.

I found quite a bit that will be useful when I talk to the administrator

1. Officials are supposed to switch responsibilities throughout the game. I did not know this so it's good to know. In non-sanctioned games though it's common for refs to be "lazy" about it.
2. I realized I'm not completely sure whether the officials are certified or not. Something to follow up on in my conversation with the administrator
3. You're bored - doesn't really help me in my league but I could not have found that out by asking local officials.
4. Apparently $30-35 per game is good pay for some areas.
(EDIT) - And reading some of the other posts in this forum is quite educational about rules, officials thinking/responsibilities, and gameplay

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

(EDIT) - And reading some of the other posts in this forum is quite educational about rules, officials thinking/responsibilities, and gameplay

That's really what the forum is about. Feel free to post questions and participate in the discussion!

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That's really what the forum is about. Feel free to post questions and participate in the discussion!

And take the class and the test. You might find that you enjoy it. And you certainly will learn from it.

[tref]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

I found quite a bit that will be useful when I talk to the administrator

1. Officials are supposed to switch responsibilities throughout the game. I did not know this so it's good to know. In non-sanctioned games though it's common for refs to be "lazy" about it.
2. I realized I'm not completely sure whether the officials are certified or not. Something to follow up on in my conversation with the administrator
3. You're bored - doesn't really help me in my league but I could not have found that out by asking local officials.
4. Apparently $30-35 per game is good pay for some areas.
(EDIT) - And reading some of the other posts in this forum is quite educational about rules, officials thinking/responsibilities, and gameplay

1. Is this "league" using a running clock? If so, not switching on every foul is to conserve the players time on the court. Please dont assume the officials are just "being lazy."

2. So what if the officials arent "certified" it isnt a "certified" contest & obviously the coaches arent "certified" at the HS level either. Most certified officials that I know dont want to deal with the ignorance that goes on at these levels of play. Especially during March Madness & NBA playoff time!! IMO, you guys are watching it on tv before your game & come into the gym way too hyped up for your skill level & true abilities.

3. LOL

4. That is very decent for the off-season!

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

And take the class and the test. You might find that you enjoy it. And you certainly will learn from it.

Nothing better than working with a coach that knows his stuff!!

If an official should know the rules before stepping on a court, shouldn't the coach know em too?

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by tref

1. Is this "league" using a running clock? If so, not switching on every foul is to conserve the players time on the court. Please dont assume the officials are just "being lazy."

2. So what if the officials arent "certified" it isnt a "certified" contest & obviously the coaches arent "certified" at the HS level either. Most certified officials that I know dont want to deal with the ignorance that goes on at these levels of play. Especially during March Madness & NBA playoff time!! IMO, you guys are watching it on tv before your game & come into the gym way too hyped up for your skill level & true abilities.

- I won't assume that but it is something I will ask about. My plan is to talk to the administrator who I already know has some issues with the officiating however runs into a lot of the problems you mentioned (running during season/etc...)

- I'm not saying I'm going to go in with a "prove you're certified" button or anything. It's just a point that weighs into the situation.

Originally Posted by tref

Nothing better than working with a coach that knows his stuff!!

If an official should know the rules before stepping on a court, shouldn't the coach know em too?

You make a good point here so that's something I will consider.

[tref]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

- I won't assume that but it is something I will ask about. My plan is to talk to the administrator who I already know has some issues with the officiating however runs into a lot of the problems you mentioned (running during season/etc...)

- I'm not saying I'm going to go in with a "prove you're certified" button or anything. It's just a point that weighs into the situation.

So are saying it is a running clock or not?

Again, what does certified have to do with anything? Unless the administrator promotes the league as using certified officials only, it should not matter. Being "certified" really only means that one has passed a written test, PERIOD!

- I know a guy that couldn't pass the HS test, but can work his tail off & has since moved up to the DI level.
- I know a guy that scored 100% on the test, but cant call Lassie.
- I know guys that buy shirts with the certified patch already on it & have never taken the test.

At the end of the day, you aren't a certified coach & your players have got to put the ball in the basket!
Even US cheating refs cant stop made baskets, or can we??

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by tref

So are saying it is a running clock or not?

Again, what does certified have to do with anything? Unless the administrator promotes the league as using certified officials only, it should not matter. Being "certified" really only means that one has passed a written test, PERIOD!

- I know a guy that couldn't pass the HS test, but can work his tail off & has since moved up to the DI level.
- I know a guy that scored 100% on the test, but cant call Lassie.
- I know guys that buy shirts with the certified patch already on it & have never taken the test.

At the end of the day, you aren't a certified coach & your players have got to put the ball in the basket!
Even US cheating refs cant stop made baskets, or can we??

It is a running clock until 2 minutes so I see your point on the not switching however they still switch at halftime so that the same ref is on our baseline when we're in the offensive zone so that's still confusing.

I've purposefully stayed away from my players in the discussion as I'm focused on the refs in this discussion. Since it keeps coming up though this is my advice to the players.

- You focus on the the little things, things you control like your turnovers, not letting a mistake affect the next play etc... and I'll worry about the big things (the refs, other players actions, etc....)
- I'm a firm believer that a good team that executes will nullify any ref or other team situation.
- Our team has their issues with unforced turnovers, missed layups and such. I take responsibility for it and ensure the players do as well. They have and continue to improve on it. That puts me into a spot to have to begin to deal with the big things I mentioned above, thus my questions.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

It is a running clock until 2 minutes so I see your point on the not switching however they still switch at halftime so that the same ref is on our baseline when we're in the offensive zone so that's still confusing.

I've purposefully stayed away from my players in the discussion as I'm focused on the refs in this discussion. Since it keeps coming up though this is my advice to the players.

- You focus on the the little things, things you control like your turnovers, not letting a mistake affect the next play etc... and I'll worry about the big things (the refs, other players actions, etc....)
- I'm a firm believer that a good team that executes will nullify any ref or other team situation.
- Our team has their issues with unforced turnovers, missed layups and such. I take responsibility for it and ensure the players do as well. They have and continue to improve on it. That puts me into a spot to have to begin to deal with the big things I mentioned above, thus my questions.

It does seem odd, although I can see the logic of keeping it consistent the entire game. If they aren't going to switch during the half, anyway. It's flawed logic, but it's flawed.

Oh, my advice from your previous post: next time you get a T, shut up. Especially if you don't have an ACs.

[rockyroad]

Coach-rec,

I coach football, and ref basketball. As a coach I have learned that quite often what I "think" I see going on out on the field is not necessarily what is really happening. So I have made a "rule" for myself, my staff, my players, and my parents - we don't complain about the officiating at the game. If they want to gripe in their car, that's up to them...but not on the field, not as we are leaving the field, not in the locker room, etc., etc...I sit down on Saturday mornings and watch the game film. If there was something I was upset about Friday night, I look for it on the film. If it's there, I will shoot an e-mail (attaching the play clip helps) to the assignor and let him know about it. If it wasn't there - I am sure to let my staff and players know that it wasn't when we watch tape.

Now I know this is "only rec-league", but there's no reason why you can't do something similar. Have a parent film the games, and then watch the tape. If there's something there then you can go to the assignor. More often than not (as I have learned) you will see that you were wrong.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

I found quite a bit that will be useful when I talk to the administrator

1. Officials are supposed to switch responsibilities throughout the game. I did not know this so it's good to know. In non-sanctioned games though it's common for refs to be "lazy" about it.
2. I realized I'm not completely sure whether the officials are certified or not. Something to follow up on in my conversation with the administrator
3. You're bored - doesn't really help me in my league but I could not have found that out by asking local officials.
4. Apparently $30-35 per game is good pay for some areas.
(EDIT) - And reading some of the other posts in this forum is quite educational about rules, officials thinking/responsibilities, and gameplay

I'll just add that, more than the pay, the biggest obstacle you're going to have in rec leagues is atmosphere.

How are your officials treated by the coaches and fans? How are they treated by the administration? Are they backed by the administration when they have to deal with sportsmanship issues?

I'll work a game for $20 where I'm treated as a professional before I'll work a $35 game where I have to put up with coaches and fans berating me all game. Best case scenario is both.

The other thing is, if you're games are played during the sanctioned high school season, your better officials are working those games and aren't available on your nights.

I'm not saying we need a red carpet and a state room; but active and supportive game management goes a long way.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

No I expected to get an opinion or several of them. I got plenty and some that helped.




I found quite a bit that will be useful ...

Now, you're next thread will be titled "How to deal with JRut"

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Now, you're next thread will be titled "How to deal with JRut"

Jrut's ok, he's just bored. I'm considering lobbying to get him an offer to ref some of these games so I can chew his ear a little and then he won't be so bored after giving me a T

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

Jrut's ok, he's just bored. I'm considering lobbying to get him an offer to ref some of these games so I can chew his ear a little and then he won't be so bored after giving me a T

That's depends on the context of your actions and words.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

Jrut's ok, he's just bored. I'm considering lobbying to get him an offer to ref some of these games so I can chew his ear a little and then he won't be so bored after giving me a T

Lobby all you want to, I do not work those games. I am much happier to not deal with coaches that whine about calls instead of helping kids have a good time playing a fun game.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Just FYI - our local kids rec league pays $30 for HS level games (boys and girls) to experienced officials. We work two or three games in a shift, all with a two person crew. Games are 7 minute stop time quarters with a 3 minute halftime and teams get four 30-second timeouts for the game, so the games go pretty quickly (also 15 point "mercy" rule - no back court guarding). We don't switch on every foul, but we do switch on virtually every shooting foul. On non-shooting fouls, we switch if it "makes sense" - meaning if the positioning of the refs when the foul was called makes it more logical to switch (I think you guys know what I mean). We call this "convenience mechanics".

Sure - we get complaints that the refs are favoring one team over the other. However, those complaints usually come from both teams.

Oh yeah - since we don't really designate a referee and an umpire, I always ask my partner just before tip off if he wants to throw up or have the runs.